Valves or Solid State for Loud Black Flag Style Punk?

[Junkienurse]

I instinctively want to go with a valve amp but worry about the reliability and cost of replacement valves so have been looking more and more at the solid state option. What are your thoughts? Need something that could play unmic'd at a medium/small venue but that could also keep up with a v. loud, punk style combo.

 

Currently using a {censored}ty Laney practice amp.

 

Other gear is a Fender US Strat, Schecter Diamond Series, Rat peddle, and that's it!

[JBecker]

Stability and replacement are not nearly as big an issue as people love to say.

 

Get a JCM900 and ditch the rat.

[LordOVchaoS]

 

Get a JCM900 and ditch the rat.

 

 

Rats sound {censored}ing awesome in front of JCM 900s!

[lukeswall]

Greg Ginn used some ampeg amp on Damaged and some Peavey head after that album, both solid state.

[code_blue]

I instinctively want to go with a valve amp but worry about the reliability and cost of replacement valves so have been looking more and more at the solid state option.

 

This is kind of an ignorant way of thinking.

 

97% of what are considered to be the best amps in the world are tube.

 

Its like driving around in a golf cart because you have to change the oil in a Ferrari.

 

 

 

[Junkienurse]

Well, the fact is that oil is expensive. And when you're broke you don't scan car dealers that specialise in ferraris. A golf cart will do just fine, so long as it's loud and reliable.

[code_blue]

Sigh...

 

Ok, whatever you say.

 

If all you care about is loud and reliable and not the actual sound, than:

 

 

Enjoy the sounds of a shitty practice amp, only louder, shouldn't break like all tube amps do...

[JBecker]

 

Well, the fact is that oil is expensive. And when you're broke you don't scan car dealers that specialise in ferraris. A golf cart will do just fine, so long as it's loud and reliable.

 

 

Most punk can be played on anything. Half of it is supposed to sound like {censored}.

 

However, it doesn't cost much to replace tubes (between 20-30 dollars for pres in most amps and about 30-70 for power tubes) and that doesn't need to be done often-- quality tubes last 2-4 years, and more expensive tubes (slightly more than that range) will last you practically forever.

 

I've been playing just tube amps since 6 months into playing guitar five and a half years ago (so for five years), and I've never played a broken amp and all of my gear has been used and three and a half of those years I was gigging.

[Zakko]

People want to hear bands that sound good, nowadays.

 

In general, tube amps sound better than solid state ones.

 

Punk bands back in the day didn't go for solid state amps because they wanted somthing that sounded {censored}ty. They went to them because that's all they had their hands on! If you get a {censored}ty sounding amp for the sake of sounding {censored}ty, that's just pathetic, not 'punk.'

[Tommy Horrible]

I'm a huge Black Flag fan and Greg Ginn fan. If you want to cop Greg Ginns sound it pretty easy.

1.Go down to the local pawnshop and a guitar, any guitar that has humbuckers in it. Your gonna want something you can abuse and throw against the wall and {censored}.

2. Get the cheapest solid state half stack you can find and crank that {censored}er to 10. What your looking for here is uncontrollable feedback that pisses off everyone over 18 in the audience and tone that sounds like the end of man kind. If your going for Greg Ginn tone there should be nothing pleasing about it. Just utter destruction.

[Junkienurse]

I'm a huge Black Flag fan and Greg Ginn fan. If you want to cop Greg Ginns sound it pretty easy. 1.Go down to the local pawnshop and a guitar, any guitar that has humbuckers in it. Your gonna want something you can abuse and throw against the wall and shit. 2. Get the cheapest solid state half stack you can find and crank that fucker to 10. What your looking for here is uncontrollable feedback that pisses off everyone over 18 in the audience and tone that sounds like the end of man kind. If your going for Greg Ginn tone there should be nothing pleasing about it. Just utter destruction.

 

At last. Someone who gets it.

[JBecker]

At last. Someone who gets it.

 

Hey, I started with most punk sounds like shit.

 

If you want to purposely sound like shit, then pay for the cheapest thing you can and that's that.

 

If you're looking for good tone, many punk bands in the 80s used JCM800s, many "punk" bands of the 90s (not pop punk, mind you, hardcore punk or whatnot) also used JCM900s which have more gain than the 800s and a bit more nastiness to it if dialed in like shit, like most punk.

 

So why ask if you want to sound bad? That's the easy part. Why do you have a US Strat instead of a shitty Squire?

[jamesclark]

I'm a huge Black Flag fan and Greg Ginn fan. If you want to cop Greg Ginns sound it pretty easy. 1.Go down to the local pawnshop and a guitar, any guitar that has humbuckers in it. Your gonna want something you can abuse and throw against the wall and shit. 2. Get the cheapest solid state half stack you can find and crank that fucker to 10. What your looking for here is uncontrollable feedback that pisses off everyone over 18 in the audience and tone that sounds like the end of man kind. If your going for Greg Ginn tone there should be nothing pleasing about it. Just utter destruction.

FUCK! I never knew i was cop'n Greg Ginn's tone.

[Tommy Horrible]

Here's greg ginns Wiki. It talks about his amps and guitars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Ginn

[Junkienurse]

 

So why ask if you want to sound bad?

 

 

OK. I was being flippant. I'm not trying to sound '{censored}ty', I just didn't know if I needed to go exclusively down the valve route. I just checked out Marshall's DSL100 and that's a head that would have the tone I need and would be within my budget. The only thing that puts me off is the need to regularly change valves. That's why I was thinking about the SS option. No other reason other than that really.

[Tommy Horrible]

 

Hey, I started with most punk sounds like {censored}. If you want to purposely sound like {censored}, then pay for the cheapest thing you can and that's that. If you're looking for good tone, many punk bands in the 80s used JCM800s, many "punk" bands of the 90s (not pop punk, mind you, hardcore punk or whatnot) also used JCM900s which have more gain than the 800s and a bit more nastiness to it if dialed in like {censored}, like most punk. So why ask if you want to sound bad? That's the easy part. Why do you have a US Strat instead of a {censored}ty Squire?

 

 

There is performance art aspect to what I'm describing. I wouldn't really call it sounding like {censored}.

[JBecker]

 

There is performance art aspect to what I'm describing. I wouldn't really call it sounding like {censored}.

 

 

You're talking about someone who long grew out of that phase but understands what you are saying. However, many bands like that do use tube amps that do and can sound good.

[code_blue]

The only thing that puts me off is the need to regularly change valves.

 

I wouldn't say 2-3 years is "regularly". Were you under the impression you had to change them a few times a year? Be honest now....

[Tommy Horrible]

Oh yea, I play in a misfits sounding band but I still think I have pretty good Punk rock tone. This Is my Les Paul and My B-52 AT-212. I think the B-52's sound great for punk and are seriously low $.

 

[JBecker]

Crate V series amps and Vox AC15/AC30s could be used as well.

[Junkienurse]

I wouldn't say 2-3 years is "regularly". Were you under the impression you had to change them a few times a year? Be honest now....

 

I sort of was. If I'm honest. 2-3 years you say; that makes the DSL far more viable.

[JBecker]

I sort of was. If I'm honest. 2-3 years you say; that makes the DSL far more viable.

 

2-3 years for sure, and tubes have lasted far longer.

 

www.dougstubes.com

 

Not very expensive either for EL34s or 12ax7s.

[Junkienurse]

Of course, what I REALLY want is whatever Bryan Gregory was playing through.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2epj61MEYH8

 

Great clip BTW Tommy.

[spinedriver]

As far as going solid state and still having a decent sound, you can get a Marshall Valvestate 8100 used on e-bay for a decent price and those have been used by many bands live and in the studio. Peavey has the XXL and the older Ultra Supreme (I think that's what it was called) and you can get some decent tones out of that. Also, you might wanna look into Randall. The RG series has decent power and huge amounts of gain.

 

As fas as all of the 'tubes are the only way to go' people, I've yet to see any proof of that whatsoever aside from their 'say-so'. I find it funny, because on many occasions, these same people get mad when they find out that a song they've been listening to and liking so much was recorded with a digital modeler (Line 6 Pod) or some other solid state rack gear (Tech 21 PSA-1).

 

Bottom line is let your ears be the judge, ss amps can sound just as good as a tube head in the right hands and those that say they can't either A) haven't used one in a very long time or B) Are mad that they spend thousands on 'boutique' amps and can get a very similar tone out of a $400 modeler.

[JBecker]

 

Also, you might wanna look into Randall. The RG series has decent power and huge amounts of gain.

 

Probably the best of the SS distortions I've heard, as long as that sound is your thing.

 

As fas as all of the 'tubes are the only way to go' people, I've yet to see any proof of that whatsoever aside from their 'say-so'. I find it funny, because on many occasions, these same people get mad when they find out that a song they've been listening to and liking so much was recorded with a digital modeler (Line 6 Pod) or some other solid state rack gear (Tech 21 PSA-1).

 

 

Nope, not at all. Two points-- none of the bands I listen to use SS or modeler, and I own a Line 6 UX2 which I use from time to time. If one can afford it, however, for almost all applications (not necessarily some of the extreme metals or industrial stuff), tube has sounded better to me every time.

 

Bottom line is let your ears be the judge, ss amps can sound just as good as a tube head in the right hands and those that say they can't either A) haven't used one in a very long time or B) Are mad that they spend thousands on 'boutique' amps and can get a very similar tone out of a $400 modeler.

 

Of course. He doesn't need a modeler. He needs one loud distortion sound and a sorta clean sound. This is punk, and it doesn't take too much at all. JCM900s, are to me, pretty much the ideal amp for punk. Raunchy, just a bit too much gain and bite, loud as {censored}, an ok, more brittle-ish clean, and it can sound good with a lot of work dialing it in for those times you don't want to just sound trashy. They're also the same cheap bucks you're talking.