Members Rustie Posted May 15, 2004 Members Share Posted May 15, 2004 Originally posted by da_witch Ya know he is doing stuff for Pink at the moment? Woot woot!!!! :eek: *faints* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted May 15, 2004 Members Share Posted May 15, 2004 Originally posted by PFB Why don't you? you are the person who thinks it is important to not write for the average listener. Did Van Halen break any new ground in song writing????? You Really Got Me - The Kinks did that one. Eruption - Heartbreaker solo, Star Spangled Banner, and that's more or less arrangement not writing, but done before. Dreams - think I've heard a song written like that. Jump - Eddie using synthesizer ( not writing, just arranging), but I believe synths may have been used before. What did Van Halen write, that hadn't already been done by Kiss or Zeppelin? I really can;t think of any top 100 song written in the last 30 years (think average listener) that didn't follow a pretty standard verse and chorus songwriting formula. Don't Worry Be Happy - interesting vocal usage, still standard writing. Chariots of Fire Theme - Nice piano work, standard pop song melody and changes. Panama - pretty standard Van Halen rock Evil Woman - ELO added strings to a Pop/rock song, who ever could imagine that. Although I suppose Sinatra, The Beatles, The Stones, and maybe even someone else had a top 40 hit with a string section added on. Yep. I agree- this was my point. You can take something like "jump" and actually play it on acoustic guitar and the song doesn't change just becasue it is missing the keyboard riffs- it's still "Jump". I think Wes understands what I mean more now than when we started so, it was a great exchange. P.S. Wes- I totally disagree with you about Radiohead. They proved on "Pablo Honey" and "The Bends" that they can write Beatle-esque pop rock and then they went off the deep end ( ) I've been trying to get a handle on Hail to the Theif for awhile and I really don't like it much...but there are some really incredibly rich musical things going on in there that hearken back to musique concrete movements and atonal compositions- it's really much more advanced than anything else out there in pop/rock right now. That's what is so ironic about your distaste for them- they are truly NOT writing for the average listener... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wes_Powell Posted May 15, 2004 Author Members Share Posted May 15, 2004 Originally posted by BryanMichael That's what is so ironic about your distaste for them- they are truly NOT writing for the average listener...B That's why every limp wristed coffee shop poof in the world considers them the world's greatest band? Sorry dude, droning, caterwauling, and silly noises doth not great songwriters make. 2+2=5 is quite possibly the most horrific "song" ever written. -wp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PFB Posted May 15, 2004 Members Share Posted May 15, 2004 Originally posted by Wes_Powell Because you have limited your listening to what little you can play yourself, you've quite possibly become the most tiresome poster on HC. You've completely missed the point about challenging the average listener and raising the bar. Of course, I have to conclude that this is intentional due to your lack of challenge to yourself.This is a pity.-wp LOL, if what I listen to is limited to what I can play I am happy to say I listen to Chet Atkins, Doc Watson, Eric Clapton, Lloyd Maines, Gary Moore, Mark Knopfler, Bob Dylan, Del McCoury, Alison Krauss, Kasey Chambers, Matthew Ryan, Uncle Tupelo, BB King, Muddy Waters, Stevie Wonder, Vince Gill. I would say you are the one who is limited to Jazz, Hair Metal , and Prog-Rock. You dont know anything about Blues, Folk, Bluegrass or Country, so you're opinion of music is very limited. Either way, Someone who puts down the musical ability of Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan, I don't consider much of an expert. I consider it laughable. I mention Steve Earle, but you still have no idea what the guy has even accomplished. Go ask Vince Gill or Brad Paisley or Del McCoury if Steve Earle is a great song writer. (oh never mind you probably don't know who those people are either, since they aren't Jazz-Fusion players) I have challenged myself over and over again. I have been working on Mandolin and Lap Steel for the past year, sorry if its not as impressive to you because you have gotten into Jazz for about a year. But Lap steel is as challenging as learning any Randy Rhoads solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wes_Powell Posted May 15, 2004 Author Members Share Posted May 15, 2004 Originally posted by PFB I have challenged myself over and over again. I have been working on Mandolin and Lap Steel for the past year, sorry if its not as impressive to you because you have gotten into Jazz for about a year. But Lap steel is as challenging as learning any Randy Rhoads solo. That's certainly true. Have you recorded anything? -wp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PFB Posted May 15, 2004 Members Share Posted May 15, 2004 Originally posted by Wes_Powell That's certainly true. Have you recorded anything?-wp No chance of that, I may let you critique my guitar playing at some point, if I ever get my computer running. Mandolin I am ok. Lap Steel is still too damn tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members siliC0N Posted May 15, 2004 Members Share Posted May 15, 2004 Originally posted by olddan ~sigh~ what's your point? You can drive a nail with a screwdriver, doesn't mean the screwdriver is now a hammer. But I am glad that you're real cool and go to Slam poetry readings. Just trying to help bubba, no need to try and cut someone down for that. The question was Poetry vs. Lyrics..... Did you read that section of the post? The point was this: Poetry=Lyrics and Lyrics=Poetry..... Is that difficult to understand? I was simply giving examples that I felt would back up my stance on this argument. I do not believe I stated anything concerning how cool I believe myself to be, or for that matter anything that could be even remotely construed as such.... The point Here is this: keep your nasty attitude to yourself because I want no part of it. Thank you very much. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted May 15, 2004 Members Share Posted May 15, 2004 Originally posted by Wes_Powell Sorry dude, droning, caterwauling, and silly noises doth not great songwriters make. 2+2=5 is quite possibly the most horrific "song" ever written.-wp So you finally understand my point! While Radiohead are making interesting and challenging music...it doesn't mean that it is "good songwriting" from any type of songwriting perspective i.e. the complexity and originality of the music have nothing to do with the craft of writing a song (melody,lyrics, chords) I am disappointed to see from others that you don't appreciate Dylan or Cash or Steve Earle !? As from a pure songwriting perspective these guys are masters. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted May 15, 2004 Members Share Posted May 15, 2004 Originally posted by Wes_Powell I do like those guys. This is baggage from other conversations. -wp Oh- I haven't posted in this forum much for a long time, I used to- but I got tired of people asking for a "critique" and then spending a half an hour writing an extensive critique only to have people say "there are no rules" and then defend every word- which is fine, but why ask for a "critique" if all you wanted really was a pat on the back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members olddan Posted May 15, 2004 Members Share Posted May 15, 2004 Originally posted by siliC0N Just trying to help bubba, no need to try and cut someone down for that. The question was Poetry vs. Lyrics..... Did you read that section of the post? The point was this: Poetry=Lyrics and Lyrics=Poetry..... Is that difficult to understand? I was simply giving examples that I felt would back up my stance on this argument. I do not believe I stated anything concerning how cool I believe myself to be, or for that matter anything that could be even remotely construed as such.... The point Here is this: keep your nasty attitude to yourself because I want no part of it. Thank you very much. Have a nice day. Did you read the second sentence of my post? Because lyrics can be read and poetry can be put to music does not mean they are the same. duh. And I got my attitude honestly - from moronic posts like yours. bubba. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted May 15, 2004 Members Share Posted May 15, 2004 Originally posted by Wes_Powell LOL. I hear 'ya. Care to critique my tunes? -wp Love to- A little background on me before I do just so you know where I'm coming from. I'm 34, been gigging semi-pro in various original and cover bands around the Columbus and central Ohio region since I was 18. Last album I worked on was by a singer-songwriter named Fred Haring. I play bass on about half the tunes on that album- he is signed to a small label in Germany and the previous album was produced by Dan Baird (lead singer/guitarist of The Georgia Satellites). His style is kind of a John Mellencamp thing. The lead track from the album "Carousel" is a good example of how writing and arranging are different- the bass line that I came up with in the rehearsal sessions ended up becoming the main melodic figure in the song for the instruments, but the song was already written by Fred- he could sit down and play it with the acoustic and its still the same song without all that... His website is www.fredharing.com Some other projects of note are: You can hear me singing on the soundtrack to "Breaking up with Maggie Moore" a short film that is currently still in rotation on the IFC (Independent Film Channel) and I wrote a song for the film "Bullethead" which was on Pay-per-vue a couple years back. You can pick up a copy at your local Blockbuster. I have written radio jingles, Children's musicals, and I do some scoring for video and film projects. There is a bio of some other stuff I've done at my website (which hasn't been updated in a long time ) Anyway, that's where I'm coming from. I'll give your stuff a listen, I'm actually in the middle of re- editing another short film that I acted in that is now being picked up for a Canadian Television comedy compilation but I'll give it shot. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PintoMusic Posted May 15, 2004 Members Share Posted May 15, 2004 Originally posted by Wes_Powell You must've heard different stuff than I did then. It sounded to me like if the guitar player had to change between a first position D chord to a first position G chord he'd likely mess up trying. Which would likely explain the droning thing. He didn't have to change chords. Okay... I'm a fan of Radiohead but I can understand why Wes would not be into them. Both Jonny Greenwood and Thom Yorke are truly acquired tastes. I never liked Phil Selway's drumming. Having said that, what particular Radiohead songs are you guys making Wes listen to that he hates them so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members siliC0N Posted May 16, 2004 Members Share Posted May 16, 2004 Originally posted by olddan Did you read the second sentence of my post? Because lyrics can be read and poetry can be put to music does not mean they are the same. duh. And I got my attitude honestly - from moronic posts like yours. bubba. Have a nice day. Oh whatever, forget it. You win tough guy. I'm done with this silly escapade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members olddan Posted May 16, 2004 Members Share Posted May 16, 2004 Originally posted by siliC0N Oh whatever, forget it. You win tough guy. I'm done with this silly escapade. good. Now go away before I insult you for a third time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hackmonkey Posted May 16, 2004 Members Share Posted May 16, 2004 Lame thread. Well Wes, if 'average' means not unusual, not spectacular, then it refers to the great majority of the population. Writing music that average people like means reaching to, and speaking to, the majority of people who listen to music in the world. People like Dylan, Young, Waits, Springsteen have all been pretty successful at reaching the 'average' listener. Luckily we have YOU to reach all of the mensa folk, the nuclear physisists, and the undiscovered geniuses in the world. I'm sure your music is so 'off the hook', and scary complex they will probably run to it in droves. If you dont want 'average' people to listen to your music, I'd say you are succeeding wildly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rustie Posted May 17, 2004 Members Share Posted May 17, 2004 Originally posted by Hackmonkey People like Dylan, Young, Waits, Springsteen have all been pretty successful at reaching the 'average' listener. And I like all those artists. And I'm not exactly an ordinary person. I can fly and {censored} from my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tompetty Posted October 16, 2008 Members Share Posted October 16, 2008 Okay... I'm a fan of Radiohead but I can understand why Wes would not be into them. Both Jonny Greenwood and Thom Yorke are truly acquired tastes. I never liked Phil Selway's drumming.Having said that, what particular Radiohead songs are you guys making Wes listen to that he hates them so much? Where did you go? I'm pretty sure that you're Canadian and then one day you fell.. Sorry for bumping these older threads,(not), but quite honestly the threads of today are {censored}ing lame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LeonardScaper Posted October 17, 2008 Members Share Posted October 17, 2008 Why aspire to be average? Why not? It's a start. Hey, Petty.....loved you in 'The Postman'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 17, 2008 Members Share Posted October 17, 2008 hey, "tompetty" I'm real sorry we don't measure up to the high standards set by this thread -- but that's why we're workshopping our songs and trying to improve them instead of blathering on for 90 some posts about other people's hits. I guess we're pretty boring to a guy like you. Why not share some of your original work here and show us how cool you really are. That is, assuming you aren't the real Tom Petty, of course. I note that you are apparently a big fan of Tom Petty: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2126577 I saw Petty in LA, in '76, I think. I'd gotten interested in him when Roger McGuinn covered "American Girl" on a mid-70s album. I enjoyed the show. Bought the album. Kind of lost track of him after that. Seemed like a decent guy. Not to go Lloyd Bensten on you -- but you don't remind me anything of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members myredshoes Posted October 17, 2008 Members Share Posted October 17, 2008 I can't believe I read the whole thing. I like to think all of those people paid respectful attention to each other's critiques, honed their skills, worked very hard at their craft and are now far too busy romping on the beaches of their private tropical islands to even think about posting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matximus Posted October 20, 2008 Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 I think most musicians - and songwriters in particular - should strive to be average. And by average I mean somewhere between really good and bad. It's not a low bar. Cause most are really subpar. Hell, I'd be thrilled to be considered average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Uma Floresta Posted October 20, 2009 Members Share Posted October 20, 2009 It's much better to write songs for the average elevator rider. Oh snap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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