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My first post - what do you think?


inmyroom

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Hey all, I'm interested in your general thoughts on this song. Also, I have a particular question regarding the word choice: are there too many "uncommon" words for the song to appeal to a wide audience?

 

thanks.

 

verse 1:

spitting was the way she spoke

with no refrain or holding back

drenched in it, his composure broke

suddenly finding himself under attack

 

verse 2:

fitting was the way he fumed

with much disdain he returned the blow

stunned by it, her authority doomed

suddenly sinking to a level below

 

chorus:

THE ARGUMENT

was their first and their last

as it came and it passed

pulling them apart

from the very start

cause those words that were said

can't ever be shed

and the winner of course

that superior force

and lover's lament

is none other than

THE ARGUMENT

 

verse 3:

submitting was the way they ceased

with no champagne or toast to make

begrudged in it, their friendship fleeced

suddenly realizing it was all a mistake

 

chorus:

THE ARGUMENT

was their first and their last

as it came and it passed

pulling them apart

from the very start

cause those words that were said

can't ever be shed

and the winner of course

that superior force

and lover's lament

is none other than

THE ARGUMENT

 

bridge:

they may hope to proceed

as they strive to repent

but there's no way to succeed

in the aftermath of...

 

chorus:

THE ARGUMENT

was their first and their last

as it came and it passed

pulling them apart

from the very start

cause those words that were said

can't ever be shed

and the winner of course

that superior force

and lover's lament

is none other than

THE ARGUMENT

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What genre or type of song would this be? Rock, Pop, other?

It would help me to know. I don't think there are too many "big words" in it, but many professionals write that it is better to "dumb down" the lyrics. I suppose they think we're all retarded. I don't agree all the time with that.

 

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=481684

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Originally posted by ToxicBass


I don't think there are too many "big words" in it, but many professionals write that it is better to "dumb down" the lyrics. I suppose they think we're all retarded. I don't agree all the time with that.


 

 

thanks for the input. I have read similar things and was curious how other songwriters felt. My preference is not to "dumb down" what i instinctually write, but I sort of understand the relatability of simplicity.

 

BTW, I think this song would work well as a country song, but MY version is more modern/alternative rock, I suppose.

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I certainly don't think you've used any words that are too uncommon. I've always been for "dumbing down" lyrics. I like songs that are easy to follow and understand. I once read a book that was written from a successful songwriter and she said that you shouldn't use any words that are over 4 syllables. I try to follow that advice. Most listeners don't want to have to work at understanding your lyrics. The majority of people want to hear something that is thought provoking or descriptive but easy to digest. I think you've accomplished this. I like the lyrics you wrote. They are simple and have a pretty good story behind them.

 

Your lyrics are both descriptive yet universal. They talk of an arguement between two people in a relationship and it goes into enough detail to paint a great picture in the listeners mind. BUT, you also acheived in making this a univeral story. You did not (for the most part) mention whether the the arguement was between two lovers, two friends, a parent and a child, coworkers, etc. That is a good thing. The listener can relate the arguement to ANY similar situation they have been through that involves an arguement and then apply their own emotions and thoughts to it. That is what makes it universal. You have done what I believe to be a very difficult task. Be descriptive AND universal. It is something that makes a great song. Have you ever heard a song that talks to you a certain way? Yet in another context or from another listeners perspective it could represent a whole different story? Those are the types of songs that speak to everyone.

 

I think to make it even more univesal, you could change the part that says "lover's lament". That is the only words in the song that suggests the arguement was between lovers. If you could generalize that line a little more, it would be extremely universal.

 

About the only critcism I can give is in the number of syllables of the verses. They don't seem to follow any sort of pattern. I personally try to keep the same melody for each verse, which requires each verse to have the same syllable structure. Your syllables go like this:

 

Verse 1:

7

8

8

11

 

Verse 2:

7

9

9

11

 

Verse 3:

8

8

8

13

 

This might make it hard to make a single melody that will work for each verse. Also, the verses just don't seem to have a "rhythm" to them. I kind of felt myself tripping over myself when reading them. Especially the last line of each verse. It just seems much longer than the other lines which kind of broke up my "rhythm" when reading it. Maybe if I heard it over a written melody it would change my mind though.

 

So basically, to sum up. I like it. Good job. :thu:

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What's the opposite of dumb-down? Smart-up? Cause that's what I try to do with my lyrics.

 

Your lyrics are definetely not beyond the grasp of the average person. Besides a lot of people don't listen to the lyrics as much as the music. It's the only way rap/hip-hop can be successful =P

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Originally posted by BradPA77

I certainly don't think you've used any words that are too uncommon. I've always been for "dumbing down" lyrics. I like songs that are easy to follow and understand. I once read a book that was written from a successful songwriter and she said that you shouldn't use any words that are over 4 syllables. I try to follow that advice. Most listeners don't want to have to work at understanding your lyrics. The majority of people want to hear something that is thought provoking or descriptive but easy to digest. I think you've accomplished this. I like the lyrics you wrote. They are simple and have a pretty good story behind them.


Your lyrics are both descriptive yet universal. They talk of an arguement between two people in a relationship and it goes into enough detail to paint a great picture in the listeners mind. BUT, you also acheived in making this a univeral story. You did not (for the most part) mention whether the the arguement was between two lovers, two friends, a parent and a child, coworkers, etc. That is a good thing. The listener can relate the arguement to ANY similar situation they have been through that involves an arguement and then apply their own emotions and thoughts to it. That is what makes it universal. You have done what I believe to be a very difficult task. Be descriptive AND universal. It is something that makes a great song. Have you ever heard a song that talks to you a certain way? Yet in another context or from another listeners perspective it could represent a whole different story? Those are the types of songs that speak to everyone.


I think to make it even more univesal, you could change the part that says "lover's lament". That is the only words in the song that suggests the arguement was between lovers. If you could generalize that line a little more, it would be extremely universal.


About the only critcism I can give is in the number of syllables of the verses. They don't seem to follow any sort of pattern. I personally try to keep the same melody for each verse, which requires each verse to have the same syllable structure. Your syllables go like this:


Verse 1:

7

8

8

11


Verse 2:

7

9

9

11


Verse 3:

8

8

8

13


This might make it hard to make a single melody that will work for each verse. Also, the verses just don't seem to have a "rhythm" to them. I kind of felt myself tripping over myself when reading them. Especially the last line of each verse. It just seems much longer than the other lines which kind of broke up my "rhythm" when reading it. Maybe if I heard it over a written melody it would change my mind though.


So basically, to sum up. I like it. Good job.
:thu:

 

Thanks for the commentary and the time it took. I appreciate it.

 

I'll start from the last of what you wrote and work my way to the top.

 

Verse syllables and rhythm:

I think you are right. When reading it there is not a real rhythm and that is a concern i have. As I was first writing the verses I played around with the addition of "unnecessary" words and reworking them to fit a pattern, but to me it seemed to take away from the impact of the lyric. So instead I played with the melody and changed it up a bit for the different verses, keeping the same shape and feel, but definitely causing a slight difference. Given the choice between the two, I just preferred the melodic variations.

 

Universality and the "lover's lament":

You hit again on another thing that I was unsure of as I was writing. My intention was in fact to make a generalized association between the characters, which would lend to universality. Including "lover's lament" was sort of an impulse I had and I thought that even it could still be generalized (different kinds of lovers), but in assuming, as most would, that it refers to romantic lovers, you've helped me realize that wouldn't really be likely. I probably will end up changing it. in response to your questions,"Have you ever heard a song that talks to you a certain way? Yet in another context or from another listeners perspective it could represent a whole different story?" Yes! I think that many of my favorite songs are songs that I relate to but in a context that is much more personal than that of the words.

 

"Dumbing down":

It looks like my concern about the words may have been unnecessary. I think a lot of it comes from comparisons to other popular songs, and it just seems as if there is a small group of words that are most commonly used in songs that are meant for a large audience. When hearing words sung that you don't normaly hear, like "begrudged," might it just seem out of place?

I definitely wouldn;t want someone to have to use a dictionary to understand what they hear(and I don't think they would), but its the felling of familiarity that i don't want to harm.

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Originally posted by Floophead3

Besides a lot of people don't listen to the lyrics as much as the music. It's the only way rap/hip-hop can be successful =P

 

 

haha. good point. perhaps I should just give up now.

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Originally posted by inmyroom



Thanks for the commentary and the time it took. I appreciate it.


 

 

Hey no problem. I like giving advice! Especially when people appreciate it! :D

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by inmyroom



Given the choice between the two, I just preferred the melodic variations.


 

 

I had a feeling you already had a melody written that worked. If you already got it work to your satisfaction, then go with it. I think it sounds great. :D

 

Good luck finishing up. Glad I could help.

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Originally posted by inmyroom

Hey all, I'm interested in your general thoughts on this song. Also, I have a particular question regarding the word choice: are there too many "uncommon" words for the song to appeal to a wide audience?


thanks.


verse 1:

spitting was the way she spoke

with no refrain or holding back

drenched in it, his composure broke

suddenly finding himself under attack


verse 2:

fitting was the way he fumed

with much disdain he returned the blow

stunned by it, her authority doomed

suddenly sinking to a level below


chorus:

THE ARGUMENT

was their first and their last

as it came and it passed

pulling them apart

from the very start

cause those words that were said

can't ever be shed

and the winner of course

that superior force

and lover's lament

is none other than

THE ARGUMENT


verse 3:

submitting was the way they ceased

with no champagne or toast to make

begrudged in it, their friendship fleeced

suddenly realizing it was all a mistake


chorus:

THE ARGUMENT

was their first and their last

as it came and it passed

pulling them apart

from the very start

cause those words that were said

can't ever be shed

and the winner of course

that superior force

and lover's lament

is none other than

THE ARGUMENT


bridge:

they may hope to proceed

as they strive to repent

but there's no way to succeed

in the aftermath of...


chorus:

THE ARGUMENT

was their first and their last

as it came and it passed

pulling them apart

from the very start

cause those words that were said

can't ever be shed

and the winner of course

that superior force

and lover's lament

is none other than

THE ARGUMENT

 

 

how much cowbell will be played? :confused:

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Originally posted by blue2blue

I like the parallel rhyme structure revolving around the words "refrain" and "disdain" -- but I'm not sure those are the best words to convey your meaning...

 

 

how do you mean?

that they aren't strong enough? or that you would just use a synonym instead?

 

i guess I'm just unsure as to what you think would be better?

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Originally posted by TuneBridge.com

Since you got the lyrics - you could post a sample on
in the SongWriting forum for us to hear?

I think just reading lyrics is like trying to read emotions in text..

 

 

I don't have a recording yet. It has been added to my list of songs to record and I'll post one when i get to it.

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I'm working on my master and english and what I try and do when I write papers is the same thing I do with my lyrics -- that is convey complex ideas with the simplest possible language.

 

I'd really have to hear the song your lyrics are written for, but it seems as though they may be a bit "wordy."

 

I think "dumbing down" has a negative connotation, but I agree with the idea that lyrics should be streamlined and simple, without loosing the richness and complexity of their meaning. I hope that makes sense.

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Originally posted by justaguy88

I'm working on my masterand english and what I try and do when I write papers is the same thing I do with my lyrics -- that is convey complex ideas with the simplest possible language.

 

 

hehehe, this definitely does NOT sound like the approach taken by any of the English majors I knew in graduate school. hehehe.

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