Members stratotastic Posted May 28, 2008 Members Share Posted May 28, 2008 Given the way Mesa re-brands tubes, I'm wondering, are Black Shadow speakers just re-branded Celestions, or are they changed in some way from the models they're derived from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members metalfanat1c Posted May 28, 2008 Members Share Posted May 28, 2008 Black Shadows are Eminence. C90s are Celestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Exocaster Posted May 28, 2008 Members Share Posted May 28, 2008 C90s are Celestions. IIRC, they're Mesa-branded Classic Lead 80s, marked up 10 watts like Marshall does with Vintage 30s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theGhost Posted May 28, 2008 Members Share Posted May 28, 2008 they also have a vintage (well, 80's) black shadow speaker that is a huge-ass magnet 150 watt eminence clone of the EVM12L. it's a damn good speaker too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pezguy Posted May 28, 2008 Members Share Posted May 28, 2008 they also have a vintage (well, 80's) black shadow speaker that is a huge-ass magnet 150 watt eminence clone of the EVM12L. it's a damn good speaker too I'm not sure that is true. The 12" black shadow speakers from the 80's are the C90 which is a OEM Celestion classic lead 80 and the 12L which is a OEM ElectroVoice EVM 12L. Mesa did not use an Eminence Clone for the 12L at that time and I'm not sure they ever did. It is a great speaker for loud and clean thats for sure. It does not break up at all unless you really really push it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Razsan Posted May 28, 2008 Members Share Posted May 28, 2008 Black Shadows are Eminence. C90s are Celestions. I thought the Black Shadows WERE the C90's??? (which are modeled after the celestion Classic Lead 80 and tweaked slightly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stratotastic Posted May 28, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 28, 2008 I thought the Black Shadows WERE the C90's??? (which are modeled after the celestion Classic Lead 80 and tweaked slightly) The two Mesa amps I've owned, one had EVM-12L, and the other has the C90, both Black Shadow. I should've been more clear--it's not just Celestions, but the question's still stands. I was just curious if you did a side-by-side with the EV or Celestion models if they'd sound identical to the Mesa, or if they are tweaked in some way. The larger point is, what's the point of re-branding them? What's the thinking behind this as far as business goes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theGhost Posted May 28, 2008 Members Share Posted May 28, 2008 I'm not sure that is true. The 12" black shadow speakers from the 80's are the C90 which is a OEM Celestion classic lead 80 and the 12L which is a OEM ElectroVoice EVM 12L. Mesa did not use an Eminence Clone for the 12L at that time and I'm not sure they ever did. It is a great speaker for loud and clean thats for sure. It does not break up at all unless you really really push it though. i'm sorry, but your "unsure" is not right. there is a difference between the c90 and the black shadow that i have. the c90 is 90 watts, and there are EVM12L's that they put in cabs, but pre-C90 (i think) black shadows were not c90's. they were OEM Eminence MS-12 speakers: 150 watt EVM12L clones. See here. also, if you want to know more, look at some archived mesa and rig-talk forums by googling "black shadow ms-12" the reason I am not sure if the ms-12 is pre-c90 is because i'm not that up on my mesa speaker history. what i do know is that there is no single speaker deemed "black shadow". there have been something like 3 or 4 incarnations of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phyrexia Posted May 28, 2008 Members Share Posted May 28, 2008 Black Shadows are Eminence. C90s are Celestions. incorrect!@ black shadow = mesa bought a ton of speakers in bulk and put their own label on them. my rep told me there are small differences between stock celestion speakers and black shadow labeled speakers but i don't know for certain. there was a 50w eminence speaker "vs-12" there was a 150w eminence speaker "ms-12" there was a 200w evm speaker "evm-12;" there is a 90w celestion speaker "mc90" mesa's v30s are just plain v30s though. they don't have a black shadow label on them. the ms12 is pre c90. it was oem in mark II-era stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DirtyChains Posted May 28, 2008 Members Share Posted May 28, 2008 C 90=Celestion Lead 80 made to Mesa specs EVM 12L=200 watt Electro-Voice speaker (now has been reissued but not being used by Mesa). Mesa used a lot of them in high watt (simulclass) 112 combos and the bottom closed back part of the 80's metal grill 212 and 412 cabinets. They were a very neutral speaker with very little breakup. Almost like a PA speaker, almost. They really let the tone of the amp shine through, IMO. The vast majority of these I have seen did not have a label on them, just some numbers. Mesa also used some Altec speakers early on as well. The interesting thing about Mesa and Celestion is they had a contract saying all the speakers supplied to them had to be made in England. If this is still in effect you can get V30's and GB 25's that are English made on the Mesa website for Chinese prices. I heard Mesa rejected the China move and said if their speakers were not made in England they would get Eminence to make their entire speaker line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phyrexia Posted May 28, 2008 Members Share Posted May 28, 2008 yeah they used altec 417s early on in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seajay Posted May 29, 2008 Members Share Posted May 29, 2008 C 90=Celestion Lead 80 made to Mesa specsEVM 12L=200 watt Electro-Voice speaker (now has been reissued but not being used by Mesa). Mesa used a lot of them in high watt (simulclass) 112 combos and the bottom closed back part of the 80's metal grill 212 and 412 cabinets. They were a very neutral speaker with very little breakup. Almost like a PA speaker, almost. They really let the tone of the amp shine through, IMO. The vast majority of these I have seen did not have a label on them, just some numbers.Mesa also used some Altec speakers early on as well.The interesting thing about Mesa and Celestion is they had a contract saying all the speakers supplied to them had to be made in England. If this is still in effect you can get V30's and GB 25's that are English made on the Mesa website for Chinese prices. I heard Mesa rejected the China move and said if their speakers were not made in England they would get Eminence to make their entire speaker line. At the very least, the MC90 has a vented voice coil while the CL80 does not. I don't know what (if any) other differences exist. Both are very nice speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blackba1 Posted May 29, 2008 Members Share Posted May 29, 2008 C 90=Celestion Lead 80 made to Mesa specsEVM 12L=200 watt Electro-Voice speaker (now has been reissued but not being used by Mesa). Mesa used a lot of them in high watt (simulclass) 112 combos and the bottom closed back part of the 80's metal grill 212 and 412 cabinets. They were a very neutral speaker with very little breakup. Almost like a PA speaker, almost. They really let the tone of the amp shine through, IMO. The vast majority of these I have seen did not have a label on them, just some numbers.Mesa also used some Altec speakers early on as well.The interesting thing about Mesa and Celestion is they had a contract saying all the speakers supplied to them had to be made in England. If this is still in effect you can get V30's and GB 25's that are English made on the Mesa website for Chinese prices. I heard Mesa rejected the China move and said if their speakers were not made in England they would get Eminence to make their entire speaker line. This thread supports the celestion mesas still being made in England as of 2006 anyway... http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?p=16708 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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