Members Mogwix Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 You're correct that mathematically bigger wire has fewer losses, but at this (low) power and incredibly short run, the differences are completely negligible. If you're telling me that you can hear the difference between a 3' 12ga speaker cable and a 3' 16ga speaker cable, you're full of {censored}. There's more losses in the amp, speakers, and acoustic environment themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 i think what kieffer's saying is why scrimp on 8 feet of wire for a lifetime of lowered impedance and full signal transfer. to this, i say, absolutely. you spend $2k on a head, $1k on a cab, why the HELL would you NOT spend an extra $10 on cable between your speakers? seems like a full on case of 'no brainer' to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dark Ice Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 Most guitar amps are too loud anyway. People pay good money for power brakes. You should be opting for the thinnest, longest wire run possible so you can drive the tubes harder Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sled Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 If you go by your idea that 12 gauge is really needed for a 2' run inside a speaker cab getting a max of 100 watts, where do you go for something like 1500 watts running 40', which would be a popular PA speaker run. Just guessing, but I'm thinking you'd have more total loss there even using 4 gauge, which would be pretty much impossible. you should re-read what I've written... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 i think what kieffer's saying is why scrimp on 8 feet of wire for a lifetime of lowered impedance and full signal transfer.to this, i say, absolutely. you spend $2k on a head, $1k on a cab, why the HELL would you NOT spend an extra $10 on cable between your speakers?seems like a full on case of 'no brainer' to me.Well then you'd also want to convert your stuff to speakon too or you won't be taking full advantage of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 you should re-read what I've written...Why, because you are caught? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sled Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 Why, because you are caught? wow, whatever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sled Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 Well then you'd also want to convert your stuff to speakon too or you won't be taking full advantage of it. on the bass cab, I would recommend Speak-On Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dark Ice Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 Anything bigger than 16 is going to be overkill and harder to work with. Its not a cost issue, its a practicality issue. Also, we dont want to be perpetuating bad info on this forum, obviously, its absolutely not necessary to use large gauge speaker cable in this context whatsoever. Mathematically the losses are negligable. But if people like kieffer are left unchallenged, people reading this thread will end up coming away with bad info. "Hey man, I read that you need at least 12 gauge cable inside a guitar cabinet, your marshall 1960 must be {censored}." Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sled Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 Its not a cost issue, its a practicality issue. Also, we dont want to be perpetuating bad info on this forum, obviously, its absolutely not necessary to use large gauge speaker cable in this context whatsoever. Mathematically the losses are negligable. But if people like kieffer are left unchallenged, people reading this thread will end up coming away with bad info. "Hey man, I read that you need at least 12 gauge cable inside a guitar cabinet, your marshall 1960 must be {censored}."Steve. take what you want from what I've written. that's the cool thing about advice, it's free. just don't put words in my mouth. I'll continue to use my 14 and 12 ga cables, and you'll surely be successful with your smaller ga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 right, but you can't get by the resistive losses in the cable. the smaller the wire, the more loss in the cable... period. the cable appears as a resistor in series with the load. since speakers are basically inductive, series resistance plays havoc with the damping. minimizing this is best.why all this justifying small gauge wire cables to carry power. I want the most power to get to the speaker with the lowest series resistance reasonable and there's no way around using adequate sized cabling.16 AWG will work, so will 18 so will 20, but this is one area that a couple of extra bucks buys better performance and some level of insurance. the cable is going to dissipate some power it's just how much. And the resistive loss in 2 feet of 16 gauge cable into 8 ohms is .004 ohms. Granted that's about double a 12 gauge cable, but .004 ohms is way, way, way below anything anybody could possibly hear, and when you're talking about the reactive load of a speaker, it's completely insignificant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 with a 50 watt iron, cant say i've EVER had problems bending, manipulating, fitting, or soldering 12 gauge wire in place. whatever works for ya-- no problem. but i've certainly never had issues manipulating any larger gauge wire-- and if you're using a burly speaker wire, why not make use of the current carrying capacity, and lessened impedance inside the box too? not a misinformation issue- hell-- you can conduct with a coat hanger if you want-- but i dunno if anybody's proposing that OR singly, 12 gauge zip wire! i can only speak from experience in wiring speaker cabs i've owned- and i've found the best solution to be to use ganged, solid core, and individually insulated wire-- not the multistranded stuff. i actually use old slow pulled copper from the 40's... i got a heap of paper insulated wire from an old western electric switchboard... but i DO know from a lotta experiments with speaker making that lessened impedance (or DCR) makes a big difference in dynamics with the speaker being the same! granted-- that's with coiled inductors-- so we're talking A LOT more length-- but the example is similar to a degree. guitars're always compromised with 1/4" jacks to a certain extent.. it's just kinda a bad standard-- but it sure is quick and easy! i wish they DID offer speakons for guit-cabs-- i'd convert in a second! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 with a 50 watt iron, cant say i've EVER had problems bending, manipulating, fitting, or soldering 12 gauge wire in place.whatever works for ya-- no problem. but i've certainly never had issues manipulating any larger gauge wire-- and if you're using a burly speaker wire, why not make use of the current carrying capacity, and lessened impedance inside the box too?not a misinformation issue- hell-- you can conduct with a coat hanger if you want-- but i dunno if anybody's proposing that OR singly, 12 gauge zip wire!i can only speak from experience in wiring speaker cabs i've owned- and i've found the best solution to be to use ganged, solid core, and individually insulated wire-- not the multistranded stuff. i actually use old slow pulled copper from the 40's... i got a heap of paper insulated wire from an old western electric switchboard... but i DO know from a lotta experiments with speaker making that lessened impedance (or DCR) makes a big difference in dynamics with the speaker being the same! granted-- that's with coiled inductors-- so we're talking A LOT more length-- but the example is similar to a degree.guitars're always compromised with 1/4" jacks to a certain extent.. it's just kinda a bad standard-- but it sure is quick and easy! i wish they DID offer speakons for guit-cabs-- i'd convert in a second!That would hardly be a major renovation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cap'n Ahole Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 OP didnt say how much length needed or what amp.. ?? Id recommend keeping it no longer than you need.. Go for decent O2 free wire, & if youre not going far, it doesnt NEED to be heavy gauge, but it doesnt hurt beyond loosing flexibility.. I like GH Bigfoot ends.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cap'n Ahole Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 guitars're always compromised with 1/4" jacks to a certain extent.. it's just kinda a bad standard-- but it sure is quick and easy! i wish they DID offer speakons for guit-cabs-- i'd convert in a second! I agree.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 OP didnt say how much length needed or what amp.. ?? Id recommend keeping it no longer than you need.. Go for decent O2 free wire, & if youre not going far, it doesnt NEED to be heavy gauge, but it doesnt hurt beyond loosing flexibility.. I like GH Bigfoot ends.. We're talking internal wiring, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cap'n Ahole Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 ... In that case this sure is a long thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kitarist Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 yea it is :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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