Members CT6Mblack Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 I need to know what gauge wire I should use for connecting the jack on the back of a speaker cab to some guitar speakers. I just picked up a really old randall 4x12 cab with only 2 of the original speakers. I also picked up two used Eminence Patriot Screamin' Eagles. I've never wired up a cab before, so any advice would be great. I know all about impedance and that jazz, but as far as the gauge of wire and what not, I don't know too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thenakedarab Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 I need to know what gauge wire I should use for connecting the jack on the back of a speaker cab to some guitar speakers. I just picked up a really old randall 4x12 cab with only 2 of the original speakers. I also picked up two used Eminence Patriot Screamin' Eagles. I've never wired up a cab before, so any advice would be great. I know all about impedance and that jazz, but as far as the gauge of wire and what not, I don't know too much. Go to the shack. Get 16 or 14 gauge speaker wire, the 50' roll with the clear sheath and the paired wires. Pull the two wires apart, shove one pair of ends in a power drill, and either have someone hold the other ends or put them in a vice if you have one. Twist till it's nice and tight. Solder the ends up and you've got excellent quality noise rejecting speaker wire. You can make your own speaker cables the same way. In all reality 18 or 20 ga is fine too, but I like the superstition of the heavier cable bringing teh big ballz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OverDriven Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 Don't even bother with speaker wire. Go get some lamp cord. It's cheaper and just as good as the best speaker wire you can buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thenakedarab Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 Don't even bother with speaker wire. Go get some lamp cord. It's cheaper and just as good as the best speaker wire you can buy. ^ This too. I used 12 gauge hookup wire in my 2x12 and it sounds farkin great, no problems what so ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OverDriven Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 ^ This too. I used 12 gauge hookup wire in my 2x12 and it sounds farkin great, no problems what so ever. Yep. I buy lamp cord and 1/4" jacks now instead of expensive speaker cables. They last longer and I know I'm getting the max bass response with that huge gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctorx Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 18 gauge lamp cord is fine. The bigger guages are difficult to insert into the terminals of jacks and plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 i use solid copper wire with paper wrap from old western electric switchboards in my cabs-- 2 strands of 20 gauge per terminal.. but lamp cord works too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jaytee123 Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 Don't even bother with speaker wire. Go get some lamp cord. It's cheaper and just as good as the best speaker wire you can buy. Durable as {censored}, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 I found this info helpful as well. Thanks folks . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lndianScout Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 lol and I thought I was the only one, I cut up the wifes extention cables, shhhhhhh dont tell her... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncan Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kitarist Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 isnt the more the gauge the better :| would using too less gauge (less gauge more mm) cause bad tone or suck of tone thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 isnt the more the gauge the better :| would using too less gauge (less gauge more mm) cause bad tone or suck of tonethanks again Not really. It can be worse if it is so thick that it is hard to work with at the connections. Anything heavier than 16 gauge is going to be overkill for the amount of signal going through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sled Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 Current for a 100W load at 8 ohms is ~ 3.5 amps P = I**2 * R I = sqrt(P/R) sqrt(100/8) = 3.5 So, for this example you need a cable that is designed to carry at least 3.5 amps. Can you get by with less, yes, but the cost is negligible to use sufficient size conductor and I'd recommend an AWG with at least twice or more the current capacity. I'd recommend a min of 14 AWG and 12 AWG preferred with Jumbo Plugs AWG Amps 12.....9.3 13.....7.4 14.....5.9 15.....4.7 16.....3.7 17.....2.9 18.....2.3 19.....1.8 20.....1.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 Current for a 100W load at 8 ohms is ~ 3.5 ampsP = I**2 * RI = sqrt(P/R)sqrt(100/8) = 3.5So, for this example you need a cable that is designed to carry at least 3.5 amps. Can you get by with less, yes, but the cost is negligible to use sufficient size conductor and I'd recommend an AWG with at least twice or more the current capacity. I'd recommend a min of 14 AWG and 12 AWG preferred with Jumbo PlugsAWG Amps12.....9.3 13.....7.4 14.....5.9 15.....4.7 16.....3.7 17.....2.9 18.....2.3 19.....1.8 20.....1.5That's serious overkill. Most PA's out there use 14 gauge for runs of 30-40' with wattages in the 1000 watts range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 That's serious overkill. Most PA's out there use 14 gauge for runs of 30-40' with wattages in the 1000 watts range. Exactly. You need thicker gauge for high current and long distance. You don't find either in a guitar cabinet. Anything bigger than 16 is going to be overkill and harder to work with. Even 16 would be unnecessary in most applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sled Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 how about some numbers on that 1000W 40ft run with 14 AWG. LoadCurrent when it comes to power transfer, overkill is beneficial especially when the cost is pennies on the $ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 how about some numbers on that 1000W 40ft run with 14 AWG.LoadCurrentwhen it comes to power transfer, overkill is beneficial especially when the cost is pennies on the $Maybe Andy or one of the other "in-the-know" folks from the Live Sound forum will pipe in, although this has been addressed many timese before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 You're pulling 28.28 volts with a 100w at 8 ohms. Here are some voltage drop numbers on a 2 foot run: 18g = 0.09 or .3%16g = 0.0614g = 0.0412g = 0.02 or 0.07% So you're not really talking about anything noticeable. For comparison, a 50 ft run of 500W at 8 ohms pulls 7.91 amps and 63.25 volts. The voltage drop using 16g is 3.32, 14g is 2.09 (or a 3.3% voltage drop), 12g is 1.31 FWIW - I found this cool calulator page to run the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sled Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 Maybe Andy or one of the other "in-the-know" folks from the Live Sound forum will pipe in, although this has been addressed many timese before. I'm a EE of 27 years. I know this issue very well. if you want to have losses in your cable over a couple $$ go ahead. this is absolutely one place not to economize. Watts are expensive and then to totally dismiss the cable losses is poor design, although I see it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 I'm a EE of 27 years. I know this issue very well. if you want to have losses in your cable over a couple $$ go ahead. this is absolutely one place not to economize.Watts are expensive and then to totally dismiss the cable losses is poor design, although I see it all the time. Then you should know that loss in a speaker cable is a function of impedance, length and power. You should also be familiar with the threshhold of hearing. And you should know then that any losses with the kind of power and distances in a guitar cabinet between say 16 and 14 gauge would be inaudible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 I'm a EE of 27 years. I know this issue very well. if you want to have losses in your cable over a couple $$ go ahead. this is absolutely one place not to economize.Watts are expensive and then to totally dismiss the cable losses is poor design, although I see it all the time. If you really are an EE, you should know better, as G stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sled Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 Then you should know that loss in a speaker cable is a function of impedance, length and power. You should also be familiar with the threshhold of hearing. And you should know then that any losses with the kind of power and distances in a guitar cabinet between say 16 and 14 gauge would be inaudible. right, but you can't get by the resistive losses in the cable. the smaller the wire, the more loss in the cable... period. the cable appears as a resistor in series with the load. since speakers are basically inductive, series resistance plays havoc with the damping. minimizing this is best. why all this justifying small gauge wire cables to carry power. I want the most power to get to the speaker with the lowest series resistance reasonable and there's no way around using adequate sized cabling. 16 AWG will work, so will 18 so will 20, but this is one area that a couple of extra bucks buys better performance and some level of insurance. the cable is going to dissipate some power it's just how much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sled Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 If you really are an EE, you should know better, as G stated. know better what. I guess you're saying I'm not telling the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 2, 2008 Members Share Posted August 2, 2008 know better what. I guess you're saying I'm not telling the truth. If you go by your idea that 12 gauge is really needed for a 2' run inside a speaker cab getting a max of 100 watts, where do you go for something like 1500 watts running 40', which would be a popular PA speaker run. Just guessing, but I'm thinking you'd have more total loss there even using 4 gauge, which would be pretty much impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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