Was Cliff Burton really that great?

[thinkpad20]

Just looking for opinions. I know he's legendary and all of that, but I think that's due in no small part to his untimely death. Obviously he had his moments (Orion, Anesthesia, Call of Ktulu) but overall I don't really hear much revolutionary or anything from him. I think there were bassists earlier and later who were much better, both from a technical point of view and from a creativity point of view. He was a good, solid bassist who came up with some cool lines, but not the god of bass that his reputation would seem to suggest. Then again he also was kind of pwned by the mix a lot of the time.

 

 

This might be kind of blasphemous, but hey, I call it like I see it. Feel free to respond/discuss.

[chrispsullivan]

i dont think there was anything super special about him besides the fact that he had the ability to inspire people

[Hapless]

[Locky]

He was never a technical player. If you hear any of his bass tracks, they are actually pretty sloppy by todays standards. But his genious was more in composition and harmony. Similar to what makes Lars an valuable memeber of metallica.

[thefyn]

if you have to ask...

[Sixtonoize]

Now, Old Metallica has a very special place in my heart, and Cliff IS the guy who taught James and Lars about music.

 

BUT:

 

If he were alive today, nobody would give a {censored} about him in the slightest.

[imgooley]

Was old Metallica really that great? And how much of it was due to him?

 

There are so many instances where someone's untimely death makes people put them on a pedestal. It's not always deserved, but it's the nature of the beast. It only bugs me when people deify these people.

[Keebz]

Well in 3.5 years with Cliff in the band they managed to release 3 albums and still influenced a 4th one, which are still considered their best work! He didn't only contribute bass work...he co-wrote many of those songs and was a whiz at music theory!

 

Before they released the Black Album, James said Cliff would've kick our ass if we took 2 years to release albums!

 

James also mentioned this "We never would have written guitar harmonies or instrumentals or songs with very intricate melodies and orchestrations without Cliff. We wouldn't be where we are today."

[Hapless]

Cliff Burton brought a lot of the harmony/progressive/classical aspect to Metallica. That aspect died with Cliff, and now we have the Black Album, the Loads and St. Anger.

[Angry Grimace]

Short answer, no.

 

Long answer, no.

[thenakedarab]

 

Cliff was the soul of Metallica. When he died so did they, as evidenced by the fact that the last album he had any fingerprint on (AFJA) was the last album they put out that wasn't becoming everything they loathed in music at the beginning. They became what they fought against when Cliff died, period.

[thenakedarab]

Short answer, I'm a dumbass. Long answer, I'm an incredibly ignorant dumbass.

 

At least you're honest.

[EdgeOfDarkness]

say what ya will, but cliff was amazing to watch live.

[.homewrecker.]

 

if you have to ask...

 

 

+1

[metalguy]

Cliff was the soul of Metallica. When he died so did they, as evidenced by the fact that the last album he had any fingerprint on (AFJA) was the last album they put out that wasn't becoming everything they loathed in music at the beginning. They became what they fought against when Cliff died, period.

 

what album is AFJA? lol AJFA just nit picking

 

but yeah i agree, he was a major part of metallica, seeing as at his death they even considered quitting all together. nothing amazing techinically but amazing in an entirely different way.

[thenakedarab]

what album is AFJA? lol AJFA just nit picking but yeah i agree, he was a major part of metallica, seeing as at his death they even considered quitting all together. nothing amazing techinically but amazing in an entirely different way.

 

Whoops :facepalm:

[ZachMetal]

Of course. He brought new music and bands to them that they never heard before. He played masterpieces.

[ravelm3nt]

Cliff ran that {censored}ing band. It wasn't just his playing. It was his drive, his vision. He made a lot of the final decisions about the material they recorded. Without Cliff, no one would give a {censored} about that band.

[Marshredder]

I dont see what people hate about the Black Album, its a {censored}ing amazing album with nothing but great songs. How can you think it sucks?

 

Seriously, Nothing Else Matters is the best clean song metallica have ever written.

[JKD]

Cliff was the soul of Metallica. When he died so did they, as evidenced by the fact that the last album he had any fingerprint on (AFJA) was the last album they put out that wasn't becoming everything they loathed in music at the beginning. They became what they fought against when Cliff died, period.

 

The change of ideology didn't stop the Black Album from being the pinnacle of Heavy Metal in the transition period from the late80s/early 90s though..it's an outstanding album.

[thenakedarab]

Cliff ran that {censored}ing band. It wasn't just his playing. It was his drive, his vision. He made a lot of the final decisions about the material they recorded. Without Cliff, no one would give a {censored} about that band.

 

I'll go one farther, without Cliff's influence thrash would never have gained widespread acceptance, and would have been relegated to a regional phenomena, which means death metal and so much of the stuff we have today would not exist as they are. Something most likely would have filled the void, but it would not be what we have today.

[thinkpad20]

I understand his contributions to Metallica as a band (although that might be overstated a bit, but whatever). But people often list him as one of their favorite bassists, and I just don't see that. That's what this thread was about - him as a bassist, not his contribution to the band per se. I would hazard a guess that Lars had a lot more to do with the songwriting that Cliff did for most of the songs, based on the crediting. Following that logic, Lars would be one of the best drummers ever (). I'd bet quite a lot that if Lars had died on that bus, a lot of people would say that -- assuming other aspects of Metallica's history remained the same.

[EdgeOfDarkness]

[YOUTUBE]6O9zMnwD65Q[/YOUTUBE]

[thenakedarab]

I understand his contributions to Metallica as a band (although that might be overstated a bit, but whatever). But people often list him as one of their favorite bassists, and I just don't see that. That's what this thread was about, not his contribution to the band. I would hazard a guess that Lars had a lot more to do with the songwriting that Cliff did for most of the songs - by that logic Lars would be one of the best drummers ever ( ). I'd bet quite a lot that if Lars had died on that bus, a lot of people would say that -- assuming other aspects of Metallica's history remained the same.

 

TBT Lars was not the giant cock sucker he is today back before he felt a kindred interest with the RIAA. Most people used to think Lars was a pretty cool bitch, but then he just became a bitch.

[freetime]

go listen to his bass solo before "For whom the bells toll" and you'll find your answer