Smoking MJ and songwriting

[captain average]

i got a better idea. shut the {censored} up. you're full of {censored}. i don't believe your story at all. first of all, you sound like a {censored}ing after school special. second of all, even if you are telling the truth, you're a {censored}ing crackhead with no self control and you need to shut the hell up before you infect someone else with your stupidity.

[bobc]

i got a better idea. shut the {censored} up. you're full of {censored}. i don't believe your story at all. first of all, you sound like a {censored}ing after school special. second of all, even if you are telling the truth, you're a {censored}ing crackhead with no self control and you need to shut the hell up before you infect someone else with your stupidity.

 

 

You are right.

 

I would not want to infect any druggie's with the notion not to do drugs, and to make real music. That would be the wrong thing to do in a forum that seems to be over run by druggie's, and the ones that are not druggie's (if any) don't have the stones to stand up and say anything about it.

 

And just so you know... crack was not around back when I was a druggie.

 

Peace

[captain average]

You are right. I would not want to infect any druggie's with the notion not to do drugs, and to make real music. That would be the wrong thing to do in a forum that seems to be over run by druggie's, and the ones that are not druggie's (if any) don't have the stones to stand up and say anything about it. And just so you know... crack was not around back when I was a druggie. Peace

 

 

fine. heroin, meth, coke, pills, plain stupidity, head injuries or whatever the {censored} it was that turned you into this retard i'm reading today. it wasn't weed.

[blue2blue]

You go away for a little while and look what happens...

 

i got a better idea. shut the {censored} up. you're full of {censored}. i don't believe your story at all. first of all, you sound like a {censored}ing after school special. second of all, even if you are telling the truth, you're a {censored}ing crackhead with no self control and you need to shut the hell up before you infect someone else with your stupidity.

Sounding like an after-school anti-drug message may be irritating to some but it's not as bad, civility-wise, as telling someone to "shut the {censored} up" and that he's "full of {censored}" or calling him a "retard."

 

Of course, this is infantile behavior that reflects only on the person engaging in it -- nonetheless, it is disturbing to the air of comity and collegiality a lot of us try to foster here in the Songwriting Forum.

 

Don't make me put on my moderator hat.

 

I've been cranky lately and I would not want to take it out on someone -- even someone who deserves it.

 

Let's just all take a deep breath or this thread is going to get locked.

 

Mmmkay?

[blue2blue]

You are right. I would not want to infect any druggie's with the notion not to do drugs, and to make real music. That would be the wrong thing to do in a forum that seems to be over run by druggie's, and the ones that are not druggie's (if any) don't have the stones to stand up and say anything about it. And just so you know... crack was not around back when I was a druggie. Peace

 

Bob

 

I think I laid out my thoughts above -- if one reads my posts, I think it's clear that I do think that drugs can be dangerous and destructive -- as I indicated I've seen that destruction and death first hand -- I find it tremdously sad and wasteful -- and I think it's clear that others agree on some of the same points.

 

It's not a matter of not having "stones" -- I simply don't think a simplistic, scare-tactics-driven approach works very well.

 

That said, if I hadn't lost interest in the repeat cycle of arguments in this thread I might have caught the rude behavior by one of the people arguing against you above sooner. Even if I wasn't the moderator here (I am) I would almost certainly have said something had I seen this latest go 'round. And it probably would have been considerably more to the point. (As I said, I've been cranky lately. The holidays, I guess.)

 

 

I don't want to lock this thread (or worse delete it) because I think it could be a worthwhile topic for discussion.

 

Clearly, the history of poets and intoxication is as long as the history of poetry, itself. What are the issues? Are intoxicants (and I include alcohol as well as other drugs) ever of any real benefit? Clearly there are large dangers -- death, dissolution, the drunk tank, jail -- but are there smaller ones, too?

 

At any rate, it's a topic that could bear proper, insightful discussion. Such a thing is possible.

 

I hope you'll perhaps take a look at this thread some time in the future and think about it from the point of view of getting your message across -- because I think you have a valid personal story. But I think your persuasive tactics are actually alienating those you're trying to reach.

 

________________

 

To everyone:

 

At any rate, I hope we can all take a deep breath here and either let this thread slip into the waters of cybertime or, perhaps, come back to the discussion with renewed efforts to maintain an air of collegiality and mutual respect.

 

Don't make me go all moderator on your sorry backsides.

 

[BlueStrat]

Meh.

 

What works for one person might not for another. Radical concept, I know. But I played with guys who wrote brilliant stuff stoned on pot. It was as if all the distractions for them were stripped away and they could hear complete pieces of music in their minds. For me, it was the opposite-it just made me lethargic and stupid. If I ever did come up with anything good, I invariably forgot it when I came down.

 

Lots of things, from refried beans to tequila to coffee, affect different people in different ways. Why should pot be any different?

[captain average]

You go away for a little while and look what happens... Sounding like an after-school anti-drug message may be irritating to some but it's not as bad, civility-wise, as telling someone to "shut the {censored} up" and that he's "full of {censored}" or calling him a "retard." Of course, this is infantile behavior that reflects only on the person engaging in it -- nonetheless, it is disturbing to the air of comity and collegiality a lot of us try to foster here in the Songwriting Forum. Don't make me put on my moderator hat. I've been cranky lately and I would not want to take it out on someone -- even someone who deserves it. Let's just all take a deep breath or this thread is going to get locked. Mmmkay?

does him lumping every chemical in the world together and then calling us all retarded druggies who can't play do something for you? does saying that i'm retarded and full of {censored} in a "civil" manner (the i'm rubber you're glue argument that what i'm saying reflects me) and then threatening me with your "moderator's hat" somehow make you think you're less infantile than me? the man has no idea what he's talking about, and i'm tired of his bull{censored}. why should i have to talk like someone i'm not about it? and i'm sure you're the kind of guy that has an answer for every rhetorical answer, so knock yourself out.

[blue2blue]

does him lumping every chemical in the world together and then calling us all retarded druggies who can't play do something for you? does saying that i'm retarded and full of {censored} in a "civil" manner (the i'm rubber you're glue argument that what i'm saying reflects me) and then threatening me with your "moderator's hat" somehow make you think you're less infantile than me? the man has no idea what he's talking about, and i'm tired of his bull{censored}. why should i have to talk like someone i'm not about it? and i'm sure you're the kind of guy that has an answer for every rhetorical answer, so knock yourself out.

 

You are the only one who has called anyone retarded here, based on a quick search. I haven't read every bit of every post in this increasingly tiresome thread but if I missed someone else being rude and obnoxious, it was strictly an oversight. I'll be happy to condemn all rude and obnoxious behavior, here.

 

 

I think, before you pick a fight with me, you'd really better give yourself a chance to catch that deep breath I was talking about. Do yourself a favor.

 

Seriously.

 

[sabriel9v]

Meh. What works for one person might not for another. Radical concept, I know. But I played with guys who wrote brilliant stuff stoned on pot. It was as if all the distractions for them were stripped away and they could hear complete pieces of music in their minds. For me, it was the opposite-it just made me lethargic and stupid. If I ever did come up with anything good, I invariably forgot it when I came down. Lots of things, from refried beans to tequila to coffee, affect different people in different ways. Why should pot be any different?

...

[Dean Roddey]

I'm not sure I want to hear the music that one creates after over-indulging in refried beans. And of course we all know that refried beans are a gateway substance leading to other types of legume abuse.

[blue2blue]

Legume abuse... like those hideous mosaics made with dyed, dried beans. Just one step away from macram

[bobc]

Bob I think I laid out my thoughts above -- if one reads my posts, I think it's clear that I do think that drugs can be dangerous and destructive -- as I indicated I've seen that destruction and death first hand -- I find it tremdously sad and wasteful -- and I think it's clear that others agree on some of the same points. It's not a matter of not having "stones" -- I simply don't think a simplistic, scare-tactics-driven approach works very well. That said, if I hadn't lost interest in the repeat cycle of arguments in this thread I might have caught the rude behavior by one of the people arguing against you above sooner. Even if I wasn't the moderator here (I am) I would almost certainly have said something had I seen this latest go 'round. And it probably would have been considerably more to the point. (As I said, I've been cranky lately. The holidays, I guess.) I don't want to lock this thread (or worse delete it) because I think it could be a worthwhile topic for discussion. Clearly, the history of poets and intoxication is as long as the history of poetry, itself. What are the issues? Are intoxicants (and I include alcohol as well as other drugs) ever of any real benefit? Clearly there are large dangers -- death, dissolution, the drunk tank, jail -- but are there smaller ones, too? At any rate, it's a topic that could bear proper, insightful discussion. Such a thing is possible. I hope you'll perhaps take a look at this thread some time in the future and think about it from the point of view of getting your message across -- because I think you have a valid personal story. But I think your persuasive tactics are actually alienating those you're trying to reach. ________________ To everyone: At any rate, I hope we can all take a deep breath here and either let this thread slip into the waters of cybertime or, perhaps, come back to the discussion with renewed efforts to maintain an air of collegiality and mutual respect. Don't make me go all moderator on your sorry backsides.

Your right man, and I'm sorry.

This is a very touchy subject to me, and I was way too agressive to others here. I don't realy think that everyone here are druggies, and I crossed the line on that one.

It's just that I saw too many bad things that happened to too many good people from drugs, and when people started responding to my posts with the notion that drugs are'nt that bad, I got carried away from that point.

I'm sorry to everyone, and I did start out meaning well, and I hope you all can forgive me for getting out of line.

[bobc]

does him lumping every chemical in the world together and then calling us all retarded druggies who can't play do something for you? does saying that i'm retarded and full of {censored} in a "civil" manner (the i'm rubber you're glue argument that what i'm saying reflects me) and then threatening me with your "moderator's hat" somehow make you think you're less infantile than me? the man has no idea what he's talking about, and i'm tired of his bull{censored}. why should i have to talk like someone i'm not about it? and i'm sure you're the kind of guy that has an answer for every rhetorical answer, so knock yourself out.

 

 

I did get carried away with my posts, and I just posted an opology to everyone (which includes you), and I have seen the worst things that drugs does to people.

 

My brother deid from drugs, another friend froze to death because he passed out in the snow from drugs & alcohol, another friend blew his brains out with a 357 as a result of depression from doing drugs, another friend died of a supposed suicide (I think it was a murder made to look like a suicide, cause he ripped off the wrong people for drugs), another friend who died in his appartment with the needle still in his arm (his sister found him when she went to see him), another friend who died in the hospitol from vomet in his lungs from passing out while drinking and doing drugs, another friend who died from liver desease from too many years of drugs and alcohol, two friends who died in a car wreck after smoking some weed and running a red light, a girl friend who had a stroke at 22 years old because she did not have any more veins left to shoot up with so she started shooting up in her neck, a girl who stepped right out in front of a car doing about 60 MPH while doing an LSD like drug and did not know there was a car comming (she was killed on impact), and many other friends who's lives where destroyed by drugs and alcohol.

 

These are the types of things that happen when people get involved with drugs, and wether you want to belive my BS or not, it's the truth.

 

I did get carried away with some of my posts, and I am man enough to admit that, but I did not come busting in here calling people names. You can call me names if you want, thats no big deal, but maybe a post stating your oppinion without name calling would be more constructive to the topic.

[blue2blue]

Your right man, and I'm sorry. This is a very touchy subject to me, and I was way too agressive to others here. I don't realy think that everyone here are druggies, and I crossed the line on that one. It's just that I saw too many bad things that happened to too many good people from drugs, and when people started responding to my posts with the notion that drugs are'nt that bad, I got carried away from that point. I'm sorry to everyone, and I did start out meaning well, and I hope you all can forgive me for getting out of line.

 

Thanks for catching up with that, Bob.

 

It's easy to get a little carried away when one is passionate about something, particularly when it's tied up with concern for others and the hope that others won't suffer from the same mistakes.

 

Sometimes I have to bite my tongue when I'm talking to friends or loved ones who are struggling with their own alcoholism. It would be so easy to just gush forth one long testimony to the damage alcohol did in my life. (Which isn't always obvious, I never crashed any cars or got thrown in jail. Hmm... there was that broken leg when I slipped leaving a bar. But that was because I was goofing around. OK. some of it was obvious.)

 

 

But I know from my own experience that going overboard in that direction is often just going to close up an avenue of communication that's still open and quite possibly provoke even worse behavior (in a desperate drunk).

 

I take a lot of my cues from friends I have who are 12-steppers* -- an addict has to want to quit. [*I'm not in the program myself but maybe I should be. Bizarrely, once I decided to quit, not drinking wasn't nearly the problem I'd always imagined it would be. But it's possible or even likely that going it on my own and not pursuing a recovery regimen allowed me to avoid some of the growing up that I'd long deferred with alcohol. Then again, it's kind of amusing being a 17 year old trapped in an old man's body.]

 

Of course, you're trying to prevent people from getting addictions or dependencies in the first place but there is still a necessary canniness to it, I think. If one goes in with a frontal assault, one will almost always be met by a wall of defensiveness and rationalization. And if one engages in even the slightest hyperbole, he'll find his credibility is called into question on every statement, even when he is standing on solid ground.

 

 

Thanks for addressing this so graciously, Bob. I'm sure folks will take a look at that and, when they think about it, realize that you were in large part driven by the desire that others shouldn't have to suffer from mistakes you might have made.

[captain average]

none of those drugs that affected your friends was marijuana. the very fact that it's illegal, and not legal and used as it should be, is the reason that you associate it with harder needle drugs and what i'm assuming is dxm or mescaline. honestly, i'm in favor of legalization of all drugs. if you look at amsterdam, heroin use didn't increase when it was legalized, but the tragedies involved i'm sure diminished. clean needles and regulated substance and help for those who need it would prevent the spread of aids and overdoses and gangs and killing in our country and in the countries where they're produced. people that want drugs will use them. i think it should be made safe and legal and not stigmatized, which would take away the vast majority of the dangers involved. besides all that, mj isn't a harmful substance. it's less dangerous than caffeine or alcohol or tobacco (not sure how harmful nicotine is by itself). noone has ever died from weed, although the illegality of it has ruined many lives.
edit: also, i play about as well stoned as i do sober. sometimes a little better. i've heard recordings. also, i enjoy it more, and that's the reason i play anyway. and calling us all druggies like you were nancy reagan's lachey just makes you sound like a moron or a 12 year old raised by religious fanatics.

[blue2blue]

I'm sending you a private message, captain average.

[BlueStrat]

 

if you look at amsterdam, heroin use didn't increase when it was legalized, but the tragedies involved i'm sure diminished.

 

 

Wrong, and wrong. Heroin hasn't been legalized in the Netherlands. And while it's use went down among the Dutch, it in fact did increase among tourists and transplants, particularly among Germans, and the result has been more ODs and more crime, mostly robbery and gun assault crimes.

[captain average]

and you don't see the huge gaping hole in the logic there

[Foxy Methoxy]

I am a creative genius when I smoke pot. And then when I drink and take cough medicine as well I can get into that special 'creative spot', where I can record several minutes of one beautiful chord and some sublime vocal wailing which helps express my emotional state.

 

But for real I sometimes will get way too hung up on one idea when I'm too ripped, and will have one awesome riff that goes with nothing. When I am sober and inspired my mind is more of a precision machine, and on lucky days I can sit down and {censored} a song out in a few minutes.

[blue2blue]

 

Wrong, and wrong. Heroin hasn't been legalized in the Netherlands. And while it's use went down among the Dutch, it in fact did increase among tourists and transplants, particularly among Germans, and the result has been more ODs and more crime, mostly robbery and gun assault crimes.

 

The Netherlands clearly has a complex social situation that few other countries share.

 

The social science seems clear around the world, though: breaking the cycle of addiction of addicted criminals through treatment reduces crime. Simply throwing addicts in jail without treatment does not, by an large.

 

And that is why you'll see the adoption of treatment and support programs in forward thinking corrections systems.

 

An alternative which is controversial but has shown positive results in a number of tests is maintaining addiction in various ways. One of the ways is through state-sanctioned supply of opiates to addicts.

 

A primary benefit of this treatment path is that addicts tend to engage in less criminal activity in support of their habits -- and addiction levels tend to be maintained at safe levels.

 

It's fairly well understood that one of the reasons that street junkies spiral downward is that they continually get different effective dosages.

 

Since addictions tend to "re-set" themselves at the current extreme, each time an addict gets accustomed to stronger doses, he spirals down a little farther. And most addicts (and certainly this holds true for alcoholics) have an almost impossible time "backing off" their addictions.

 

 

The junkie street crime problem in Dutch cities may be mostly foreigners but it still highlights the fact that even with an enlightened treatment system, it is nonetheless an extremely complex problem and even sensible measures that are effective in the microcosm of controlled environments sometimes are influenced by factors far outside the primary locus of drug and addict.

[bobc]

none of those drugs that affected your friends was marijuana. the very fact that it's illegal, and not legal and used as it should be, is the reason that you associate it with harder needle drugs and what i'm assuming is dxm or mescaline. honestly, i'm in favor of legalization of all drugs. if you look at amsterdam, heroin use didn't increase when it was legalized, but the tragedies involved i'm sure diminished. clean needles and regulated substance and help for those who need it would prevent the spread of aids and overdoses and gangs and killing in our country and in the countries where they're produced. people that want drugs will use them. i think it should be made safe and legal and not stigmatized, which would take away the vast majority of the dangers involved. besides all that, mj isn't a harmful substance. it's less dangerous than caffeine or alcohol or tobacco (not sure how harmful nicotine is by itself). noone has ever died from weed, although the illegality of it has ruined many lives. edit: also, i play about as well stoned as i do sober. sometimes a little better. i've heard recordings. also, i enjoy it more, and that's the reason i play anyway. and calling us all druggies like you were nancy reagan's lachey just makes you sound like a moron or a 12 year old raised by religious fanatics.

 

 

The two friends who ran a red light and got killed where just smoking pot, and not paying attention that the light was red. All the others that I mentioned started getting into drugs by smoking pot, and many others started the same way... smoking pot. I'm not saying that all pot smokers start using heavier drugs, but I am saying that almost all (and I'm talking in the high 90% range) heavy drug users started out smoking pot.

 

If they start making drugs legal, they will wind up with all the same problems assotiated with alcohol, and the reason (in my opinion) that prohabition failed is because alcohol was legal to begin with, and was allready the biggest addiction problem before they tried to make it illigal. If they make drugs legal, they will evolve into the same types of problems as alcohol. Sure there may be a decrease in street crimes, but the increase in domestic crimes and other types of crimes will well make up for that.

 

If you think you play better by smoking some weed, and only enjoy playing because you smoke, then that is your choice. As for me, I'm kindof the opposite. I get a better high from the music itself, and would not want to ruin my music high with a drug high.

 

To each his/her own.

 

Peace

[King_For_A_Day]

Human beings have and always will eat, drink, smoke, inhale or inject various substances to change our routine perspective. Even children love to stand on their heads, or spin around until they are dizzy. Rather than deny this urge, we should accept it. Just as sex should not be for the immature, but an adult, responsible decision, so with intoxication. Some people pursue, others abstain

[rsadasiv]

+ = ??????

:poke:

[Dean Roddey]

The two friends who ran a red light and got killed where just smoking pot, and not paying attention that the light was red.

 

 

To be fair, many times more people have probably done that with cell phones than pot, and people can not be paying attention for a thousand different reasons, no matter what their mental state. Obviously it's not good to have people smoking and driving, and they should be seriously dealt with when caught.

[blue2blue]

+ = ?????? :poke:

 

That pretty well sums it up, I'd say.

 

;^)

 

 

[As you probably found out -- this board limits one to no more than 10 smilies... looks like you used up mine, too. Greedhead. =^D ]