Drugs, alcohol and songwriting / performing

[DaveGrima]

Obviously drugs and booze cant give you instant talent and creativity. Thats something youre born with. Developing your talents is largely a matter of practice and experience. That being said booze and drugs probably can help already creative musicians get into a new perspective and maybe have new experiences to write about, especially pot and psychadelics, if youre into that kind of thing. And its not for everyone. Tons of great musicians produce great music with out it. Frank Zappa was a tee-totaler.

Im sure alot of famous rock songs were written while high,but that doesn't mean they were written because they were high. As far as performing go's its pretty common for musicians to have a beer or two or maybe smoke a little weed before a gig to loosen up. Nuthin wrong with that IMO. Harder drugs like coke, and heroin can be fun too but will eventually kill you or seriously {censored} your life up.

All in all Music is generally about having a good time and letting loose. People like to go to clubs, and concerts and party and listen to music. Why shouldn't the performers have fun too?

[kurdy]

Suppose taking drugs really does help you write better songs. Is writing songs that important to you that you are willing to risk screwing up all other aspects of your life to do it? I know songwriting can be a rewarding activity, but that view sounds a little extreme to me. Why not just read, or take up a new hobby or skill, or travel?

 

You may intend only to do drugs "in moderation". But how can you tell what is moderation when you're high? I'm pretty sure that's how a lot of people become drug addicts; by overestimating how much of a handle they have on it.

[Jerry_L]

Has anyone who's never tried heroin written a great song about heroin, though?

 

I've never tried it, and I'm willing to forego the experience, even if it means I never get to write a great heroin tune.

[kurdy]

Has anyone who's never tried heroin written a great song about heroin, though? I've never tried it, and I'm willing to forego the experience, even if it means I never get to write a great heroin tune.

 

"Fire And Rain" by James Taylor was partially about his struggles with heroin addiction--basically his realization that if he didn't quit, he could die. It's a nice song, but personally, I wouldn't start shooting heroin in order to write something like it.

 

Just like Kayne West wrote a song about being in an auto accident, and I'm sure such an experience would spark a lot of great ideas. But that still doesn't mean I'm going to jump in front of a moving car.

[blue2blue]

Has anyone who's never tried heroin written a great song about heroin, though? I've never tried it, and I'm willing to forego the experience, even if it means I never get to write a great heroin tune.

 

The greatest possible song about heroin has already been written and the title, naturally enough, is "Heroin." When Lou Reed's reedy, quasi tuneless voice (I got one of those, I can say it ) rises above the Velvet Undergrounds semi-chaotic glorious mess and says (in the first verse):

 

I don't know just where I'm going But I'm gonna try for the kingdom, if I can 'Cause it makes me feel like I'm a man When I put a spike into my vein And I'll tell ya, things aren't quite the same When I'm rushing on my run And I feel just like Jesus' son And I guess that I just don't know And I guess that I just don't know

... I'm thinking that pretty much says it all. The rest of the lyrics, I think, are pretty damn good, too.

 

 

Anyhow, I'm not now nor have ever been a heroin addict, although I've lost too many friends and even a close family member to IV drug abuse (just as I've lost some very good friends to alcohol abuse) but I did find myself writing what I think is a pretty good song about addiction and the foolish sense that you can outsmart the addiction. (My own addiction to alcohol was trouble enough, I can tell you. PM me. ) She's Got Eyes Just Like a China Doll

[Jerry_L]

Do you think anyone could write a song about not having tried heroin that's as good as Lou Reed's Heroin? I doubt it.

[blue2blue]

I don't think there's any reason why they couldn't. In fact, while I don't know of any off hand, I'll bet there already are some good ones. Easier for me to imagine on the humor side... Junkies can be pretty funny/pathetic. (If they just didn't keep ending up in gutters, selling their ass on the street, and dying they'd be funnier still.) I think I've heard some pretty on-point raps about why a given MC isn't a junky, for that matter, though none come to mind.

 

That said, at his best, Lou can really write a song. I'm not a huge fan (big, big fan of the VU, overall, good and bad, though) -- but I give him due and proper respect. A lot of the Velvet's songwriting was really strong. (The playing was all over the map, of course, but that was, indeed, part of their charm.) And stuff like Lou's dark, dark, dark Berlin album. Hoo boy.

[Awake77]

Never was good playing while inebriated - I'm always sober on a stage.

 

I remember reading an interview with Queensryche a while back. The interviewer asked Chris DeGarmo how they came up with ideas for Operation:Mindcrime.

 

He said: "I smoked a lot of pot"

 

Drugs have certainly influenced creative - positive and negative - since mankind start putting strange plants in his mouth. I dont think its good or bad, that's up to the person using the drugs.

 

If you're the kind of person that lets their life become controlled by a chemical or an experience, then you have a problem and you shouldnt use drugs.

 

What IS wrong, however, is your government telling you what and what you cant do with your own mind and body. And then expecting everyone else to pay for it when they throw people in jail for 20 years for growing a plant in their backyard.

[animal69]

 

somebody clearly has too much time on their hands . . drugs and alcohol can not make an un creative person creative. all the musicians and artists you name start out with talent. THAT is the thing that idiots forget when they go about emulating them.....hell, I was stupid enough to use "the beatles did it" as an excuse to try LSD for the first time. this kind of discussion predates rock, and jazz, as does the whole 'novelists = alcoholics' stereotype . . think of colridge and 'kubla khan'. it's ultimately pointless . john lennon would've written great songs whether he was taking LSD or drinking coffee. and by the way, "rating" their potential usefulness in a public forum, whether or not you've been in rehab or 12 steps, is one of the dumber things I've read.

 

 

yes i agree with your disagreement... i think my original post was an attempt to rationalize my own use.

[animal69]

 

I'm not going to say they are worthless. I had fun. I will say that they destroyed my life for a good amount of time and... 1. An extremely talented guitarist/singer lives under the liquor store around the corner from me and deals. He's not so talented any more 2. I got a phone call from a friend 5 years ago informing me "He finally did it." Of course I knew she meant her husband (and close friend of mine) finally killed himself. Meth. 3. A friend died onstage from a heart attack. Coke. Glamorous eh? 4. On and on and on. I don't have the time to tell you all the first hand experiences I have with death or walking dead cases. If you want to glamorize it... it's because you haven't been there. Take my sincere advice and don't. I was lucky... barely.

 

 

i've been there. i hate to repeat the cliches i have heard during my stint in rehab but they said "the great obsession of every alcoholic/addict is to control their use and benefit from it" ... i think thats what ive been trying to do. i know its eating me slowly but still i am trying to believe that it can help me somehow. i have been there .. i think i am there. the worst for me was coke in terms of mental symptoms from using... opiates and alcohol are currently my worst problem in terms of physical symptoms from withdrawal: shaking and sweating.

[animal69]

although i don't want to encourage any potential fights here, i actually chuckled out loud when i read that quote. . it IS a bit silly.

 

i was high at the time ... had gone without sleep for a while .. was trying to rationalize .... of course its dumb...

 

when i first started getting back into music my assumption was that everyone in bands were on drugs ... im actually glad to be hearing what im hearing ... its a good reason for me to finaly stop bull{censored}ting myself

[animal69]

 

Stevie Ray Vaughan died in a helicopter crash years after he dried out. What are you talking about?

 

 

really? im sorry... i thought he died from using cocaine and jack daniels. i knew some of my information would be incorrect.

[animal69]

 

If you're talking about the Rolling Stones song "Brown Sugar", it wasn't about heroin, it was about black women. Read the lyrics here: http://music.yahoo.com/The-Rolling-Stones/Brown-Sugar/lyrics/785530#lyricstop You really should do a little fact checking before making such statements (and the Stevie Ray Vaughan one too).

 

 

im sorry.

[animal69]

 

The OP seems to be seriously weighing the "advantages" of drug use to boost his creativity. Something tells me he's not very interested in facts. Sad................very sad.

 

 

i dont regret making this post because it has allowed dialog to flow which has made me reconsider my views on the relationships between drugs and music. so i think its a good thing when someone makes brings their confused thinking into this forum, that's why its called a forum right? i'm glad people are weighing in with their opinions.

 

one thing i would like to know... are there any people here who have been sober that have gotten a real record deal including an american and european tour? the reason i am biased is because what i hear comes from the people i know directly who have been signed and toured america and europe and all they talk about is the nights spent doing cocaine. the band's name is "koufax"... http://www.koufaxmusic.com/ i know they're no big deal but i look at them, making a little money, doing world tours, drinking heavily, doing coke .. and i think ... well maybe if i do drugs i can have the same things

[animal69]

 

Sounds like the OP already has his mind made up.

 

 

wrong .... far from it ... i guess i was living in a fantasy world

[rjt]

 

Never was good playing while inebriated - I'm always sober on a stage. I remember reading an interview with Queensryche a while back. The interviewer asked Chris DeGarmo how they came up with ideas for Operation:Mindcrime. He said: "I smoked a lot of pot" Drugs have certainly influenced creative - positive and negative - since mankind start putting strange plants in his mouth. I don't think its good or bad, that's up to the person using the drugs. If you're the kind of person that lets their life become controlled by a chemical or an experience, then you have a problem and you shouldn't use drugs. What IS wrong, however, is your government telling you what and what you cant do with your own mind and body. And then expecting everyone else to pay for it when they throw people in jail for 20 years for growing a plant in their backyard.

 

 

I agree, don't like the governmental control thing. What I do think is wrong and really hate, is paying for people who get drunk, stoned or whatever, smash up their cars or use for 40 years and 1) kill someone else; 2) end up in jail for a long, long time[for killing someone else]; 3) end up a vegetable or semi-vegetable ward of the state which costs tax payers a lot of money or 4) say "I'm a disabled (add your own term.....alcoholic, drug addict, pain patient)....and get a benefit check to never work again. I am (I hope) not a cynic....but I see this all the time. If you want to smoke, drink or whatever, don't endanger others!!! and don't expect society to reward you because you've been a failure. Honestly, I'm a child of the late 60s....been there... quasi remember it. But don't reward or pay for people who abuse...sorry (I don't buy, they need help/love/treatment....not discipline or jail.)

[coldfingaz]

One thing that is sorely missing from this thread is talk of moderation.

 

Let me make this clear: I'm not trying to stir up a pro-drug stance here... nor would I advocate the use of any hard drugs (i.e. beyond marijuana) ever. What I've learned about myself during the past 40 years is, luckily, I can have a few drinks and function. I don't need another few drinks the next morning, day or night. When I started playing live, a drink or 3 loosened me up. I faced fear with a bit more ease and a relaxed attitude.

 

No, I don't drive home. And, no, I don't need to drink before I play, and often times I don't have more than a beer. And, yes, it can make me suck if I overindulge. For me, it's almost like playing pool. Stoned cold sober, I suck because I'm probably too tight and thinking too much. After a few beers, I'm decent. After too much, I suck.

 

Songwriting is pretty different, though. I can see where the moderate use of marijuana could expand the perspective from which you write from. It's not making anyone more creative, but it is a different take... sometimes the quality is better, sometimes worse & sometimes it's about the same. Drinking while writing... I don't know about that, maybe in moderation it couldn't hurt, but I don't see how it could enhance your writing.

[masterbuilt]

Doing drugs is a bad idea... period. Every band I have been in or formed since 1979 has hada no drugs rule. We tried working in a band in 1978 and early 79 where the drummer and his bass guitarist father sat around doing RUSH... the band would never accomplish anything once they started getting stoned. I've seen too many musician friends ruin their lives and talent by drug use. They thought it helped creativity, but they were not clear and ther music really suffered.

 

Bon Jovi just had an interview where he talked about drug and alcohol use and how the best players he knows are all sober all the time.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

Nothing of the sort. Drugs and music have nothing in common, are for none but fools.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

Yes To Carrots

 

 

... but not more then two pound per day

[boomboomdrums]

 

really? im sorry... i thought he died from using cocaine and jack daniels. i knew some of my information would be incorrect.

 

 

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE1DE1338F93BA1575BC0A966958260&scp=1&sq=stevie+ray+vaughan&st=nyt

 

He did fight cocaine and Jack Daniels addiction, however he overcame it before his death. It almost killed him. Search online, there are biographies that tell the story.

 

Sorry I was so harsh.

[Awake77]

 

I agree, don't like the governmental control thing. What I do think is wrong and really hate, is paying for people who get drunk, stoned or whatever, smash up their cars or use for 40 years and 1) kill someone else; 2) end up in jail for a long, long time[for killing someone else]; 3) end up a vegetable or semi-vegetable ward of the state which costs tax payers a lot of money or 4) say "I'm a disabled (add your own term.....alcoholic, drug addict, pain patient)....and get a benefit check to never work again. I am (I hope) not a cynic....but I see this all the time. If you want to smoke, drink or whatever, don't endanger others!!! and don't expect society to reward you because you've been a failure. Honestly, I'm a child of the late 60s....been there... quasi remember it. But don't reward or pay for people who abuse...sorry (I don't buy, they need help/love/treatment....not discipline or jail.)

 

 

Totally agree...and that's the core of the problem. No self respect, self discipline,or accountability.

[WoodenDuckMaker]

drugs may ruin your health, life, and relations, but if it helps you write culturally significant music that millions enjoy, then thats something bigger than you, and your personal life, and therefore a worthwhile sacrifice.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

 

drugs may ruin your health, life, and relations, but if it helps you write culturally significant music that millions enjoy, then thats something bigger than you, and your personal life, and therefore a worthwhile sacrifice.

 

 

According to Ernst, a farmer and friend of mine, one potato is bigger then all art together.

 

He once said to me:

 

"Angelo, all your work is nonrelevant, completly unimportant! Do you know what is really important?"

 

I shrugged my shoulders, then he grabbed one potato out of his crate, holded it in front of my face and said:

 

"That's important!"

[eddieboston2]

 

drugs may ruin your health, life, and relations, but if it helps you write culturally significant music that millions enjoy, then thats something bigger than you, and your personal life, and therefore a worthwhile sacrifice.

 

 

It's always touchy when there is the possibility that something good can come out of something harmful. It's hard to deny that there have and probably still are styles of music and musical subcultures that are based around drugs or alcohol, going all the way back to the old "drinking songs" or sea chanties. (remember "Yo Ho Ho and a bottle of rum?"

 

Still, that's a big if in your sentence. For every musician that may have been helped creatively by the substances he or she took, there are many more who took those same drugs that haven't written a damn thing worthwhile. Next time you pass the old wino on the corner, ask him if he's composed any good songs lately. Next time you pass the zombies stumbling out of the methadone clinic, ask them how their album is coming.

 

And of course you bring out an interesting question. Can one brilliant song, or even a brilliant body of work, justify the destruction of one life? What if this doomed genius created a whole genre of music that influenced generations before wasting his or her own life away? Is the marginal benefit the drugs provided worth it?

 

There are lots of examples of good music coming from bad experiences, but it's important to keep things in perspective. There will always be good music being created. Some say blues and jazz came out of the experiences of African slaves in America. Well, if that's the case, I think most of us would gladly give up jazz and blues forever if it could erase that stain on our history and memories. That's obviously an extreme example, but it helps to show the relative importance.

 

Music is one of the most powerful things in life, but Life itself is greater than music.

 

 

-Eddie