Members Michael Blue Posted July 18, 2008 Members Share Posted July 18, 2008 Just putting a feeler out there, so when I ask the powers that be if we can (pretty please!) have a dedicated Worship forum, there are some numbers to look at. I'm doing my best to make this poll open and descriptive, so everyone can leave an honest vote, whatever that may be. Feel free to post commentary as well, just be respectful. The reasons for having a Worship forum have been discussed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eeglug Posted July 18, 2008 Members Share Posted July 18, 2008 The forums here are all tied to specific hardware/instruments and not explicitly to genre, which is how I would see a worship forum. (Why not have a hardcore punk forum as well?) HC badly needs other technique/technical/gear forums more (IMO) - such as a Vocal Forum to discuss singing technique issues or a forum for mics or plugins etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sweetfender65 Posted July 18, 2008 Members Share Posted July 18, 2008 Michael- you got my vote. I say the more the better..and I definitely support positivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 18, 2008 Members Share Posted July 18, 2008 The forums here are all tied to specific hardware/instruments and not explicitly to genre, which is how I would see a worship forum. (Why not have a hardcore punk forum as well?) HC badly needs other technique/technical/gear forums more (IMO) - such as a Vocal Forum to discuss singing technique issues or a forum for mics or plugins etc etc etc. Well, there are other business sector forums, here, in addition to instrument-specific forums. But I think it would be highly problematic if it was restricted to any one religion. No doubt, for all practical purposes, such a forum would be most highly populated by those working in the Christian music sector because that is the most thoroughly commercialized worship sector. But I strongly suspect that our corporate hosts would put the nix on any feature or forum that seemed to favor or exclude based on religious affiliation. And, in fact, I would, myself, be firmly opposed to such an exclusive arrangement. But I see no harm in a forum that caters to religious music professionals. As long as no one asks me to moderate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael Blue Posted July 18, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 18, 2008 ...I see no harm in a forum that caters to religious music professionals. As long as no one asks me to moderate it. *raises hand*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 19, 2008 Members Share Posted July 19, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mplecha Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 what exactly would you be worshipping? walmart? satan? high water pants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeveryHarper Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 what exactly would you be worshipping? walmart? satan? high water pants? WalMart of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshIsNumber2 Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 Honestly, I don't it is a good idea at all, considering how contentious of a topic religion is, in any shape or form, even if the intent of the forum is simply music based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members freetime Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 It would be a great forum to troll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshIsNumber2 Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 Absolutely, and honestly, I'm a bit miffed at the idea of having a devote worship forum, I would want the same for other atheists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael Blue Posted July 20, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 You guys opposed to the idea should look at it as an opportunity to keep the religious discussion out of the normal forums. For the rest of us, it's an opportunity to freely discuss our music without the derision. If you're so opposed to people having beliefs, let us have a place to discuss music that is centered on them without having to offend you... Seriously, the anti-Christian banter on this forum is VERY heavy-handed and oppressive, so why would you want to force the few of us who will be posting about religious music to post them in the normal forums? Unless your motives are mean-spirited, there doesn't seem to be a good reason. We're not forcing our beliefs down your throat, so don't force yours down ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeveryHarper Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 In my opinion, there are way too many sub-forums on HC. Way too many. Also, I don't see why the "songwriting" forum can't be a good place to demonstrate your music. Has your music genre or lyrics ever been derided here? We judge the music and the presentation not the content of the lyrics. One part of me understands why you would want a forum, but the other realizes that it is really not necessary. Music is for musicians. There needs not be any catering to any certain type of genre or beliefs when it comes to music. That would open up a whole new world and needs for everybody to be represented. Besides, there could not be enough mods to stop the inundation of "anti-christian banter" as you say in a forum like that. To me it's not a good idea. So maybe it's just best to accept things as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael Blue Posted July 20, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 Actually, yes, every time a remotely religious lyric has been posted since I've been here there has at the very least been the whole "the lyrics aren't my thing" "I'm obviously not your market" etc. comments, and usually something a lot less innocuous. Worship music is about WAY more that just musical ability, musical theory, etc.. The lyrics and meaning are what it's about, there's no separating the music from the meaning...Therefore you're wasting your time asking non-Christians whether it's effective or not, and generally you're just asking to get summarily destroyed by the membership here posting anything like that. A separate forum where that can be attained without the pervasive persecution is a necessity unless the mods and Admins here want to actually start cracking down on the downright offensive slander we endure every time we post anything. No other group can be so mercilessly ridiculed each and every time they post (and often when they don't) without someone being banned for "lack of respect for other members". The intolerance for Christians here is pathetic. Just give us a separate forum and we'll get right out of your hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 Absolutely, and honestly, I'm a bit miffed at the idea of having a devote worship forum, I would want the same for other atheists. Atheism is a faith-based belief system, too, after all. I'm thinking you guys can all get along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshIsNumber2 Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 That depends on the definition and usage of the word, "faith." If you're using faith to describe the complete truth and confidence in a logical plan, then sure, it takes a degree of faith to comfortably be an atheist. However, if you're talking about the willing ability to believe in things that are without logical proof or actual physical evidence, then the concept of atheism and faith falters just a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 On the contrary, those who have belief in things for which there is not logical proof or physical evidence -- and that would be anything or lack of anything beyond our observable, measurable universe -- can be said to be operating on faith. I'm a science and logic guy; I think clarity of thought is crucial. Now, what folks want to believe in their heart of hearts (as it were) whether it involves faith that there is something beyond our universe or nothing beyond our universe is their business as long as they're not trying to tell me what to believe on faith. But this notion that someone can prove the existence or non-existence of something beyond observation, measurement or even theoretical grasp is patently silly and exhibits crippled thinking. Now, someone is going to mention burden or proof, here, sooner or later, so let me just cut to that chase: Outside a legal context, "burden of proof" means that someone suggesting a new theory or stating a claim must provide evidence to support it: it is not sufficient to say "you can't disprove this." Specifically, when anyone is making a bold claim, either positive or negative, it is not someone else's responsibility to disprove the claim, but is rather the responsibility of the person who is making the bold claim to prove it. In short, X is not proven simply because "not X" cannot be proven (see negative proof). Taken more generally, the standard of proof demanded to establish any particular conclusion varies with the subject under discussion. Just as there is a difference between the standard required for a criminal conviction and in a civil case, so there are different standards of proof applied in many other areas of life.The less reasonable a statement seems, the more proof it requires. The scientific consensus on cold fusion is a good example. The majority believes this can not really work, because believing that it would do so would force the alteration of a great many other tested and generally accepted theories about nuclear physics. Burden of proof can be a two edged sword. But staking a position for which there is no evidence, one way or another, seems to me, to be an absurdity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members freetime Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshIsNumber2 Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 It may be an absurdity to stake a position in which there is no empirical evidence support in it, but it's just plain logical and realistic to stick to the side of, "What things are," rather than, "What would be nice." The notion of a "bold" claim is relevant only as far as the strength of the original argument at hand is, being relative, the strength of the bold claim concept is only as potent as the merit of the original discussion. But in regards to the worship forum, I just think it's completely unnecessary. If someone is wishing to find constructive criticism or discussion and are not finding it readily available, then find it. It honestly smells of, "but we're being persecuted," treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 The notion of a "bold" claim is relevant only as far as the strength of the original argument at hand is, being relative, the strength of the bold claim concept is only as potent as the merit of the original discussion.Huh? Anyhow... Unless you have some supernatural powers, yourself, I'm thinking you have no way of collecting any information whatsoever about what might or might not lie beyond our observable, measurable universe. This is the way I look at it: Is it more reasonable to make a leap of faith to believe there is something besides/beyond our physical universe or that there is absolutely nothing besides/beyond our phsycal universe when we have no real evidence one way or the other? Or it is simply an absurdity to conjecture when there is no evidence upon which to build conjecture? Me, I take the last position. I believe someone trying to prove or disprove the existence of things completely beyond his ken is engaged in absurd behavior. And I'll offer a personal opinion based on long observation: a lot of folks who work up a big head of steam trying to prove there "is no god" (whatever that is presumed to mean) are working off deep personal feelings of betrayal and anger. I sense they feel they've been lied to and feel bitter and played. Now just whom -- or should I say Whom? -- they're mad at, I'm not really sure. Back on topic -- I have no idea how our benevolent corporate hosts will respond to Michael's suggestion but I think everyone who cares one way or the other, should feel free to voice an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dr5euss Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 'Fraid I don't want one either...look at what's happened to this thread now - is that not how the whole forum with end up? I also agree that a Vocal Forum would be more useful to more people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 I'm looking at this thread as sort of a charter forum... (like a charter school, eh?) A test or lab where feasibilities can be investigated and behaviors observed. It would also be a fairly good preview for whoever ended up moderating such a forum of the sort of issues they might face. Yeah... whatever happened to that Vocal Forum? One thing, I would hope that our religious brothers and sisters would still join us here for discussions of songwriting even if such a forum was created. Just as I would hope our singing brothers and sisters who also write music would continue joining us here, if a vocal forum were ever created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 Actually, yes, every time a remotely religious lyric has been posted since I've been here there has at the very least been the whole "the lyrics aren't my thing" "I'm obviously not your market" etc. comments, and usually something a lot less innocuous. When I say that, I am trying to be nice. Don't push your luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted July 20, 2008 Members Share Posted July 20, 2008 i don't think a "worship forum" is a good idea because it would definitely have the connotation of being a megachurch contemporary christian pop forum, which basically makes no sense in a online community which currently has no genre delineations. as in, if i'm looking for help with shouting in Ab, i'm very unlikely to go to this imaginary "worship" forum and if i can help you with it i'm very unlikely to hang out there. and if you don't understand that last sentence then you're illustrating what i'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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