Members colejustesen Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 I just got a Fender Hot Rod DeVille 2x12 combo. I love how this amp sounds, though I wonder if I would benefit from changing out the stock Eminence designed speakers. I have always been intrigued by everybody's Celestion G12H30 and Vintage 30 combos. Do you think this would be a good combo for the Fender DeVille? For those of you who have this amp with stock speakers, where is the best placement for a mic? I have it straight off the cone now, but it seems to be a bit muddy. Though it sounds bright as hell in the room. The mic I am using is a CAD D189 -> Behringer Xenyx 802 -> M-Audio Delta 1010LT -> Reaper. If anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it! Also what is a good VST Drum software that I could use along with Reaper? Thanks everybody! Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 What type of music do you play? Generally, that is not a speaker combo I would use with this specific amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members colejustesen Posted February 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 Mostly rock, from Kansas to Breaking Benjamin. It sounds great being boosted with a distortion pedal. Though I can't seem to get a great representation of it recorded. I like it's chimey cleans and the overdrives are pretty cool, but I just don't know if a better speaker combination would benefit me. Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 This really depends on what you want to spend. Ideally, you'd go for some of the alnico speakers from Weber, but that may be a bit overkill budget-wise for that amp. Both of my DeVilles sounded pretty decent through my open back 212 cab with V30's...certainly an improvement over the stock speakers. You might also want to check out Warehouse Guitar Speakers, as they'll be a bit cheaper. Additionally, I would strongly recommend a tube swap in that amp. You'll spend ~$50 plus the cost of the bias and it will drastically change the quality of tone of that amp. It'll even out the gain quite a bit and take away a large portion of the harshness. In other words, if you like it now, buy some JJ's tubes and you'll love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 This really depends on what you want to spend. Ideally, you'd go for some of the alnico speakers from Weber, but that may be a bit overkill budget-wise for that amp. Both of my DeVilles sounded pretty decent through my open back 212 cab with V30's...certainly an improvement over the stock speakers. You might also want to check out Warehouse Guitar Speakers, as they'll be a bit cheaper.Additionally, I would strongly recommend a tube swap in that amp. You'll spend ~$50 plus the cost of the bias and it will drastically change the quality of tone of that amp. It'll even out the gain quite a bit and take away a large portion of the harshness. In other words, if you like it now, buy some JJ's tubes and you'll love it. I agree 100%, however I'd stick with Webers. They're not too much considering the quality of the speakers. Tube upgrade and speaker upgrade turn this into a whole different beast of an amp. I wanted to kick my own ass after I played a couple stockers and realized how bad they truly sound from the factory. I had been advocating these amps for a while, but mine had been modified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members colejustesen Posted February 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 This really depends on what you want to spend. Ideally, you'd go for some of the alnico speakers from Weber, but that may be a bit overkill budget-wise for that amp. Both of my DeVilles sounded pretty decent through my open back 212 cab with V30's...certainly an improvement over the stock speakers. You might also want to check out Warehouse Guitar Speakers, as they'll be a bit cheaper. Additionally, I would strongly recommend a tube swap in that amp. You'll spend ~$50 plus the cost of the bias and it will drastically change the quality of tone of that amp. It'll even out the gain quite a bit and take away a large portion of the harshness. In other words, if you like it now, buy some JJ's tubes and you'll love it. I bought some TAD 6L6GCSTR power tubes yesterday, since according to the original owner the amp is from 1998. I looked at the power tubes and they are the Fender Groove Tubes 6L6B, but ultimately they are just relabeled Sovtek 5881WXT power tubes. I plan on putting Tung Sol 12AX7s in it, or possibly the Mullard reissues. Though if I remember correctly, you wouldn't want a long plate design in a combo like the Mullards are designed. Though I could be wrong on this. Do you have recommendation for 12AX7 tubes for this amp? I also turned up the bias, after referring to Eurotubes.com's biasing information. This helped out a lot, but I know it needs some new tubes. I almost just thought about getting an Avatar 2x12 closed back cab wired the same as the combo. They aren't terribly expensive, considering the cost of buying Celestion speakers by themselves. Thanks! Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members colejustesen Posted February 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 What about a Celestion G12-65 or the Warehouse Speakers ET65? Thanks again for the replies! Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 I bought some TAD 6L6GCSTR power tubes yesterday, since according to the original owner the amp is from 1998. I looked at the power tubes and they are the Fender Groove Tubes 6L6B, but ultimately they are just relabeled Sovtek 5881WXT power tubes. I plan on putting Tung Sol 12AX7s in it, or possibly the Mullard reissues. Though if I remember correctly, you wouldn't want a long plate design in a combo like the Mullards are designed. Though I could be wrong on this. Do you have recommendation for 12AX7 tubes for this amp? I also turned up the bias, after referring to Eurotubes.com's biasing information. This helped out a lot, but I know it needs some new tubes. I almost just thought about getting an Avatar 2x12 closed back cab wired the same as the combo. They aren't terribly expensive, considering the cost of buying Celestion speakers by themselves. Thanks! Cole A couple of things....either of the preamp tubes you mentioned will work fine in that amp. However, IMO, the Tung-Sols will be the far better of the two brands. As far power tubes, the ones you bought will work pretty well. You're also on the right track as far as the bias goes. I have NOS Sylvanias in my 212 and I have it biased fairly hot, which has yielded pretty good results tone-wise. In terms of speakers, I would probably stay away from closed back cabs for that amp....the tone characteristics will lend themselves far better to alnico equipped open back cabs. The Celestions would be pretty decent, but the Webers would be better. If you stick with the Avatar/Celestion combo, get an open back cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members colejustesen Posted February 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 A couple of things....either of the preamp tubes you mentioned will work fine in that amp. However, IMO, the Tung-Sols will be the far better of the two brands. As far power tubes, the ones you bought will work pretty well. You're also on the right track as far as the bias goes. I have NOS Sylvanias in my 212 and I have it biased fairly hot, which has yielded pretty good results tone-wise.In terms of speakers, I would probably stay away from closed back cabs for that amp....the tone characteristics will lend themselves far better to alnico equipped open back cabs. The Celestions would be pretty decent, but the Webers would be better. If you stick with the Avatar/Celestion combo, get an open back cab. I looked at the Weber speakers, but there are so many choices! What would you recommend from them? Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 What about a Celestion G12-65 or the Warehouse Speakers ET65? Thanks again for the replies!Cole Those probably wouldn't be the best fit for that amp. Look at either the Weber 12A125's or the Weber California 12's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members colejustesen Posted February 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 Are Eminence designed speakers in it now Alnico? Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chris_d Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 Are they the same speakers that are in the Blues Deville 2x12? I just had a friend's amp in for some repairs, and i thought those stock speakers sounded great. The ones in my friend's amp are very broken-in though. I was surprised how good that amp sounded, actually. I probably wouldn't buy one new, but it was very useable, though somewhat prone to unreliability in the specimen i had here. -chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 Are they the same speakers that are in the Blues Deville 2x12? I just had a friend's amp in for some repairs, and i thought those stock speakers sounded great. The ones in my friend's amp are very broken-in though.I was surprised how good that amp sounded, actually. I probably wouldn't buy one new, but it was very useable, though somewhat prone to unreliability in the specimen i had here. -chris Yeah, the speakers in the DeVille aren't bad, and Webers or Celestions would be a improvement, but they're certainly not the worst speakers I've ever heard. Mine were broken in quite well, and I never really liked them...they had some kind of strange high frequency harshness I could never quite get rid of. My other DeVille (which I've since traded away) was a 410 and the factory speakers in that amp sounded really, really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 Are Eminence designed speakers in it now Alnico?Cole Ceramic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members colejustesen Posted February 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 As far as the Weber's go, which of the 12A125 speakers do you recommend? I am liking the sound of the 12A125A. I want to get tighter bass and those speakers say they have that. As far as the California 12, how much of a difference is there between the ceramic and alnico version? Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members colejustesen Posted February 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 I don't want to sound like a cheapskate, but I really don't want to spend over $200 on a single speaker. This is why I asked about the difference between the two California 12s. Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 As far as the Weber's go, which of the 12A125 speakers do you recommend? I am liking the sound of the 12A125A. I want to get tighter bass and those speakers say they have that. As far as the California 12, how much of a difference is there between the ceramic and alnico version?Cole Alnicos are generally regarded as being a bit 'softer' around the edges tone-wise and a bit sweeter overall. However, that's not always a good thing. Ceramic magnet speakers will be a bit punchier overall, which would probably work pretty well with your setup. The ceramic California 12's are designed as replacements for Twins, the bulk of which were designed around ceramic magnet speakers. In other words, you'll very likely be 100% satisfied with the ceramic compared to the alnicos. No matter what speaker you buy from Weber, it's going to be top-notch quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chris_d Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 Yeah, the speakers in the DeVille aren't bad, and Webers or Celestions would be a improvement, but they're certainly not the worst speakers I've ever heard. Mine were broken in quite well, and I never really liked them...they had some kind of strange high frequency harshness I could never quite get rid of. My other DeVille (which I've since traded away) was a 410 and the factory speakers in that amp sounded really, really good. That is odd. In the amp i had here, the speakers were pretty warm-sounding, i thought. They had some nice mid content, but it was more like lower mids. I didn't find them fizzy or harsh at all? I even got an o.k. metal sound out of that amp with a couple ODs in front of it. And clean, it was very good, though that is unsurprising considering it's Bassman-ish circuit. I wonder if the Hot Rod Deville and the Blues Deville have different speakers in them? -chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 That is odd. In the amp i had here, the speakers were pretty warm-sounding, i thought. They had some nice mid content, but it was more like lower mids. I didn't find them fizzy or harsh at all? I even got an o.k. metal sound out of that amp with a couple ODs in front of it. And clean, it was very good, though that is unsurprising considering it's Bassman-ish circuit. I wonder if the Hot Rod Deville and the Blues Deville have different speakers in them? -chris I thought they were the same. Maybe not? I know the 10" are alnico mag speakers and they sound pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members colejustesen Posted February 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 That is odd. In the amp i had here, the speakers were pretty warm-sounding, i thought. They had some nice mid content, but it was more like lower mids. I didn't find them fizzy or harsh at all? I even got an o.k. metal sound out of that amp with a couple ODs in front of it. And clean, it was very good, though that is unsurprising considering it's Bassman-ish circuit. I wonder if the Hot Rod Deville and the Blues Deville have different speakers in them? -chris The speakers sound good to me, a little flubby in the low end, but good none the less. I essentially have been trying to emulate a cheap mans Mesa Rectifier, but I don't think the speakers are quite what I am looking for to do this. I need something really punchy and efficient. They sound great for cleans and distortions, but leave me desiring some more. I will definitely look into the Weber California speakers! Silverfacechamp, One last question about the Weber speakers, do you recommend using two of the same speaker or mixing them? Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 The speakers sound good to me, a little flubby in the low end, but good none the less. I essentially have been trying to emulate a cheap mans Mesa Rectifier, but I don't think the speakers are quite what I am looking for to do this. I need something really punchy and efficient. They sound great for cleans, but and distortions, but leave me desiring some more. I will definitely look into the Weber California speakers! Silverfacechamp,One last question about the Weber speakers, do you recommend using two of the same speaker or mixing them?Cole I don't know that you're going to get a DeVille to be a poor man's Rectifier, but you can get some pretty decent mid-gain stuff out of it with the right speakers, tubes, and pedals. As far as the mixing....I probably wouldn't, but you can always call Weber, tell them what you have and what you're trying to do, and they can point you in the right direction. Nobody knows their speakers better than they do, and their customer service is some of the best in the industry. But...since you already have the new tubes....do the tube swap and hotter bias first. That might cure most of your tone issues without having to spend $200 on speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members colejustesen Posted February 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 I don't know that you're going to get a DeVille to be a poor man's Rectifier, but you can get some pretty decent mid-gain stuff out of it with the right speakers, tubes, and pedals.As far as the mixing....I probably wouldn't, but you can always call Weber, tell them what you have and what you're trying to do, and they can point you in the right direction. Nobody knows their speakers better than they do, and their customer service is some of the best in the industry. I have been able to get a nice grinding distortion, that reminds me of a Mesa Rectifier, though I could be wrong. It just seems to have that growl with one particular pedal I have. I will record something to show you what I am after. I will ask Weber for their advice, but to me the California 12 still seems to be the winner. Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 I have been able to get a nice grinding distortion, that reminds me of a Mesa Rectifier, though I could be wrong. It just seems to have that growl with one particular pedal I have. I will record something to show you what I am after. I will ask Weber for their advice, but to me the California 12 still seems to be the winner.Cole I added some to my post, so in case you didn't catch it, do the tube swap first to see if that cures your tone issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members colejustesen Posted February 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 I added some to my post, so in case you didn't catch it, do the tube swap first to see if that cures your tone issues. Sure thing! I appreciate all your input! I am typically a Marshall guy, but was sold on a Fender when I went into my local Guitar Center. I am surprised at how much these things rock! Excuse my ignorance, but all I thought a Fender was good for was their cleans and light overdrives. But I stand corrected! Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chris_d Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 The speakers sound good to me, a little flubby in the low end, but good none the less. I essentially have been trying to emulate a cheap mans Mesa Rectifier, but I don't think the speakers are quite what I am looking for to do this. I need something really punchy and efficient. They sound great for cleans and distortions, but leave me desiring some more. I will definitely look into the Weber California speakers! Hmm, that is quite a stretch, to go from Deville to Rectifier. I just realized that i actually have some short clips of the stopgap metal sound i was getting out of the blues deville with its stock 12" speakers though... There is some fizz, but it is largely due to the stacked ODs, as it wasn't there without them and with just them amp cranked on its own. Here, i normally don't post anything as rough as this clip though, as the playing is just me chugging and spinning knobs, trying out different mic placements, but whatever, try to ignore the playing. The signal chain is pretty silly, a MIM telecaster with GFS cool rails into a Timmy OD as a boost, into a Marshall Shredmaster clone for the main distortion sound. It was recorded at very low volumes which is why you hear the hum at the beginning, and why in general there is that heavy fizz to the sound. It cleared up almost entirely at high volumes, but i didn't record any of that, so you will just have to use your imagination. Anyhow, the clip. I would if i were you, save your money for a better metal amp if you are looking for metal sounds. The Deville is not a good solution, IMO, and also IMO, speakers will not make the difference you seek. -chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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