Members Ron Burgandy Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 Who {censored}ing cares?I do. I'm using this thread as a tribute to my absolute favorite guitar player ever born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] apologies to meshuggah... but in effort to make my point, i claim collateral damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 Newholland - I don't want to remember what this forum was like without you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cobrahead1030 Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 That's how blues based rock bands work. They get "in the moment" and play their asses off. This is especially true with Zep, as they never really played the studio versions live. Ever. You're just severely out of your element here, and have no idea what you're talking about. Metal players seem to thrive on their clean, technical playing, however that style of "solo" would be total garbage to those of us that dig Zeppelin. What you consider sloppy, is what we consider soulful, emotional playing. On that same note, that's why I hate shred guitar. No emotion and far too precise as if every note was written out beforehand. That just involves practicing repetitively until it's perfect. Emotion cannot be taught. If you'll notice, Pagey always finishes clean and where he wants to be. If not he bends the note until it fits. The dude knew/knows what he was/is doing. hendrix, srv, and gilmour were also known playing their asses off, and going more on feel than technique...i think it worked better for them in live situations than it did with pageythere are some guys (like the ones i mentioned) who can play based on emotion and feel while still keeping a good sense of timing and musicianship in what they do...chances are they didn't sit around for hours with a metronome improving their technique, they were able to do it naturally and it worked for themi envy guys like that, they have a god given talent that i don't...my own playing is definitely a lot more technical because it's what i'm good at so i tend to stick to it, but i don't discredit guys who play something else because it's what they're good at...just because i'm a metal player doesn't mean i have no clue what i'm talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 my favorite part of that meshuggah vid too is the little captions reading 'jimmy page: hall of fame'.... i really don't mean to malign a phenomenally talented band like meshuggah either... i really enjoy their music... but my point is definitely that machinelike perfection isn't necessarily music JUST because it's perfect... i think it's pertinent to throw out that a diverse batch o' influences is important to having a musical vision that's not so... er... limiting.. {censored}.. i love JP, but i'm equally influenced by the likes of page hamilton... ain't gotta be one way about it! slop OR machine... i'll taker 'er all in, and it all informs my playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny'sGotTheBlues Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 I cannot think of too many players that are super-chops focused and at the same time can hold my interest. I like it loose Fripp's about the only one I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny'sGotTheBlues Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 apologies to meshuggah... but in effort to make my point, i claim collateral damage. Oh F*ck me, that was funny. :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members noseminer Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 you decide for the record this version of this song is my favorite zepp cut. ever. thats my favorite toothe rain song live is good too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PurityS.L.G. Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 Meh. Krik Hammert > everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members .homewrecker. Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 apologies to meshuggah...but in effort to make my point, i claim collateral damage. "Mad props" sir. Very rarely do I actually laugh out loud at posts on here but gatdamn. As for the the sloppiness in question, all a gotta say is Page brings a certain precision to slop, love it or leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Hiryuu Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 apologies to meshuggah... but in effort to make my point, i claim collateral damage. Hey, I have a rhythm in one of my songs inspired by the printer of the lottery machines at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ZCat Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 pretty easy to be precise when you're only riffing on one note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members .homewrecker. Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 still no body has defined slop One man's slop is another man's soul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted March 31, 2009 Members Share Posted March 31, 2009 hendrix, srv, and gilmour were also known playing their asses off, and going more on feel than technique...i think it worked better for them in live situations than it did with pageythere are some guys (like the ones i mentioned) who can play based on emotion and feel while still keeping a good sense of timing and musicianship in what they do...chances are they didn't sit around for hours with a metronome improving their technique, they were able to do it naturally and it worked for themi envy guys like that, they have a god given talent that i don't...my own playing is definitely a lot more technical because it's what i'm good at so i tend to stick to it, but i don't discredit guys who play something else because it's what they're good at...just because i'm a metal player doesn't mean i have no clue what i'm talking about I disagree. In this case, that is exactly the situation. Page rocked, and it's not your thing. I get that, but he was and still is a master of his craft. Such an explosive player, that played in a different style than the guys you listed. SRV played straight blues, Jimi was a blues guy at heart, and Gilmore? {censored} dude, he's about as smooth as they come. Dude doesn't hit wrong notes. Page on the other hand played with a fiery passion, and always knew what was going on. His solos were jagged, explosive and new each time he played them. There were certain "bases" he'd hit throughout the solo, and if you'll notice his band was always right there. You really think they'd be able to play 20-30 minute renditions of their songs if he was just up there playing sloppy leads? No, he knew what was going on, and Zepp fans love(d) it. If you need any further proof, just remember Page is considered a guitar God for a reason and it wasn't just Zepp's studio albums. I'll concede that the '88 video posted earlier was sloppy, but I still contend there was something going on with the gear. The tone is weak, and you can see him gasping for some controlled feedback with none to be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshIsNumber2 Posted March 31, 2009 Members Share Posted March 31, 2009 hendrix, srv, and gilmour were also known playing their asses off, and going more on feel than technique...i think it worked better for them in live situations than it did with pageythere are some guys (like the ones i mentioned) who can play based on emotion and feel while still keeping a good sense of timing and musicianship in what they do...chances are they didn't sit around for hours with a metronome improving their technique, they were able to do it naturally and it worked for them Again, how are you gauging feel on this one? Is it exaggerated faces when they make a three semi tone bend for 3 bars? Is it how they rock their back at the peak of their solo? There is nothing intrinsically emotional about their playing, it's all something you add into it. "Feel" and "emotion" are just vague qualifiers people use to arbitrarily separate music that is good or not to them under the pretext that it is something that the artist has that others don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Megadeth Man Posted March 31, 2009 Members Share Posted March 31, 2009 Again, how are you gauging feel on this one? Is it exaggerated faces when they make a three semi tone bend for 3 bars? Is it how they rock their back at the peak of their solo? There is nothing intrinsically emotional about their playing, it's all something you add into it. "Feel" and "emotion" are just vague qualifiers people use to arbitrarily separate music that is good or not to them under the pretext that it is something that the artist has that others don't.Lulz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshIsNumber2 Posted March 31, 2009 Members Share Posted March 31, 2009 It's hilarious how someone thinks they intellectually beat someone by posting a picture saying they did and affirming it.l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members .homewrecker. Posted March 31, 2009 Members Share Posted March 31, 2009 It's hilarious how someone thinks they intellectually beat someone by posting a picture saying they did and affirming it.l In this case he's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshIsNumber2 Posted March 31, 2009 Members Share Posted March 31, 2009 In this case he's right. That is not a point. I'm asking on what grounds do people say that one player has more soul or feeling than another, if it isn't arbitrary labeling of favorites, then what is it? There isn't anything emotionally intrinsic about music since all music is comprised of is a series of notes put to a rhythm of some sort. At what defining point does a musician have soul, or even more soul, then his contemporaries? If there's no answer for that, then you could eliminate "soul" from the judging of abilities and look at it from a more objective standpoint of technical prowess and varied ability in a piece of music. If that was the approach we took, being that there is no real soul or feeling in music, then of course Jimmy Page is a sloppy player and that's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshredder Posted March 31, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 31, 2009 still no body has defined slop Not hitting the right notes at the right time.Then again, the "right notes" are subjective as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members .homewrecker. Posted March 31, 2009 Members Share Posted March 31, 2009 That is not a point. I'm asking on what grounds do people say that one player has more soul or feeling than another, if it isn't arbitrary labeling of favorites, then what is it? There isn't anything emotionally intrinsic about music since all music is comprised of is a series of notes put to a rhythm of some sort. At what defining point does a musician have soul, or even more soul, then his contemporaries? If there's no answer for that, then you could eliminate "soul" from the judging of abilities and look at it from a more objective standpoint of technical prowess and varied ability in a piece of music. If that was the approach we took, being that there is no real soul or feeling in music, then of course Jimmy Page is a sloppy player and that's that. Don't dare call yourself a musician. Music appreciation and one could argue music in general has zero objectivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshIsNumber2 Posted March 31, 2009 Members Share Posted March 31, 2009 Actually, since music is only particular frequencies of sound with a certain timbre, occurring at different instances of time, you can break it down to a very objective level. You could hear a piece of music and write down the number of bum notes that were played, the amount of times that the player went out of key, variances in keys and rhythms, etc. There is a lot to objectively measure in music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rich Posted March 31, 2009 Members Share Posted March 31, 2009 You know, there was a time when the internet didn't exist, and you didn't hear any Page bashing. He and john paul jones were revered as gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshredder Posted March 31, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 31, 2009 You know, there was a time when the internet didn't exist, and you didn't hear any Page bashing. He and john paul jones were revered as gods. No, there was a time before the internet where you just weren't exposed to the Page bashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshIsNumber2 Posted March 31, 2009 Members Share Posted March 31, 2009 thats because people who really play guitar in the real world know whats going on. In cyber, the ones who bash the most play the least. no real scottsman :blah: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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