Guest Anonymous Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 The Black album uses two guitar sounds that are multilayered tracks for each guitar. To get 2 guitars to complement each other sim to what the Black album goes for, what do you do to the EQ of each guitar so they will not cancel each other out. I imagine the rhythm has a bit more bass to it, but not extremely low bass that would be under 100hz. And the lead tone I imagine has more upper mids and highs, but I don't know exactly where to start to set up a lead sound like it. For the lead sound I would guess 800-2300hz there is a lot going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Badside Posted April 26, 2009 Members Share Posted April 26, 2009 I won't start analyzing the Black sound because even Jaymz himself said he could never replicate it if his life depended on it. There was a bunch of mics set up so that they cancelled each other out in cool way, but that was done mostly by ear (combined with luck). I just wanted to say something about the low-end: as you mentionned, there's probably not a lot going on under 100Hz, that would make the mix incredibly muddy. However, I've noticed when recording that you can still use a lot of low-end, and cut it during mixing. This way, it still "sounds" like you have a lot of bottom, but it's your ears tricking you. To get this tone, get a Mesa Mark something, Lead channel, treble way up, bass way down, make a nice V with the EQ and don't use too much gain (6-7 max) with fat sounding guitars and active pickups. But you'll never get it exactly. Oh, and pick hard! That's the secret weapon behind Jaymz' palm mutes. Punish those strings with a thick pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 The Black album uses two guitar sounds that are multilayered tracks for each guitar. To get 2 guitars to complement each other sim to what the Black album goes for, what do you do to the EQ of each guitar so they will not cancel each other out. I imagine the rhythm has a bit more bass to it, but not extremely low bass that would be under 100hz. And the lead tone I imagine has more upper mids and highs, but I don't know exactly where to start to set up a lead sound like it. For the lead sound I would guess 800-2300hz there is a lot going on. Talk to afxwinter. And I will tell you right, before I elaborate later, that the Black Album guitar tone is a hell of a lot more complex than just double-tracked guitars. I have a garden to dig up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MightyThor Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 I swear I hear a bit of modulation going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ttiw Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 Some cool separated audio samples from every Metallica album here... this might help you get a little closer to that tone. http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/487747-metallica-sound-1983-2008-audio-samples.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akapuli Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 There was a French website of a magazine, which analysed all the layered guitar parts in "Wherever I may roam" or some other. 7 parts at least. Unfortunately the magazine has been sold to its concurrent and the webpage is gone by now. The most interesting thing was that most of those layers as single would have been considered as da sucks, but works beautifully altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RiffDaemon Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 Fucking filter at work won't let me download the mp3's. "Peer-to-peer" it says ... ughhhhhhhhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Norton666 Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 Some cool separated audio samples from every Metallica album here... this might help you get a little closer to that tone.http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/487747-metallica-sound-1983-2008-audio-samples.html Awesome site Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 There is a straight up GOLDMINE posted here: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/487747-metallica-sound-1983-2008-audio-samples.html EDITbwahahaha Just read the whole trhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 I swear I hear a bit of modulation going on. If you're talking about Kirk's solo tone, then you are exactly right. You can't hear it that clearly at first, but if you can separate it from the rest of the track, or just listen to one side, the modulation stands out a lot more. I found it out because the headphone on my laptop is playing up- if you don't plug straight in and wiggle it, you only hear half of the mix. But this solos out particular parts of the mix, especially background parts. It's so cool how you can hear all these extra parts and different sound effects etc. Anyway, the guitar solo on Don't Tread on Me has some very prominent modulation effects going on- sounds really cool. I think it's his fancy Eventide Harmoniser, I know for a fact that Kirk Hammett had one in his rig around 1991-1993. You could replicate the effect with a chorus pedal/rack chorus/detune effect. Sounds a lot better than just a wah-wah pedal. He doesn't use the effect on all the songs, but he definitely uses it on Don't Tread on Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slaymoar Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 I claim to have replicated the sound to something very close live and recording levels. It involes mark series amp + triaxis, two players, one 4x12 each, two mics per cab. It was pretty {censored}ing close - oh and a parametric EQ on the mark. -D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 Kirk's tone & setup is a lot easier to describe than James'. Kirk Hammett used a dual-amp setup. Signal was split up front, with a low-pass filter sending the low & midrange frequencies to a Bradshaw CAE preamp & VHT 2150 poweramp, through Marshall cabinets spread throughout the studio. A high-pass filter sent the treble frequencies to a pair of Marshall Plexi amp heads, one black, one purple. This also went to the big pile of Marshall cabs spread throughout the studio. A lot of ambient room mics were used, and the amps cranked. And then of course the Eventide Harmoniser I mentioned earlier, Vox wah-wah pedal, and Monty-Jay knows the rest there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slaymoar Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 Kirk's tone & setup is a lot easier to describe than James'. Kirk Hammett used a dual-amp setup. Signal was split up front, with a low-pass filter sending the low & midrange frequencies to a Bradshaw CAE preamp & VHT 2150 poweramp, through Marshall cabinets spread throughout the studio. A high-pass filter sent the treble frequencies to a pair of Marshall Plexi amp heads, one black, one purple. This also went to the big pile of Marshall cabs spread throughout the studio. A lot of ambient room mics were used, and the amps cranked. And then of course the Eventide Harmoniser I mentioned earlier, Vox wah-wah pedal, and Monty-Jay knows the rest there. Jebus... Thats just a pile of getting lost in the setup, these guys were pretty intricate - not the most - but still so.... I wuz juss happy wiss me dual amp setup (mark/triaxis) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 James' setup- SOOOOOOO complicated. Basically two guitar tracks- ie double-tracking, and a third track for thickening particular spots to enhance the dynamics, and doing harmony stuff on the side, slides, etc. Mesa/Boogie MarkIIC+ slaved to a Marshall amp was the main gainy tone. But a lot of the tone also comes from a second modified Marshall Super Lead Plexi 100watt amp through its own cab. Then of course is the Mesa/Boogie MarkIV, which I believe adds a lot of the lower-mid chunk to the tone, as well as enhancing the seething trebly crunch. But it gets weirder as there's a was an A/DA MP-1 preamp floating around, a Mesa/Boogie Studio preamp, the Strategy 400 poweramp... I reckon instead of change settings on the IIC+, James just used the Studio preamp instead for slightly different tones. Maybe, maybe not. It's complicated. You can see the MarkIV on the table next to the rack, the IIC+ on top, the A/DA preamp, Studio preamp, Strategy 400 poweramp with the Coors Light sticker on it. ALL that is through four 4x12 cabinets stuck in the corner of the studio and closed off with foam walls and U-Haul blankets. 8 or so microphones were placed near the cabinets, and two ambient microphones overhead. These 10 or so microphones were mixed together at various levels for some fancy phase-cancelling, so to equalise the signal without being so harsh-sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 I claim to have replicated the sound to something very close live and recording levels. It involes mark series amp + triaxis, two players, one 4x12 each, two mics per cab. It was pretty fucking close - oh and a parametric EQ on the mark. -D Any clips? I used to be into replicating those tones but nowdays I enjoy making my own tones more. But I still like learning how musicians create their tones, it's a good springboard to go forth with new ideas . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slaymoar Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 Any clips? I used to be into replicating those tones but nowdays I enjoy making my own tones more. But I still like learning how musicians create their tones, it's a good springboard to go forth with new ideas . There is at least one recording, but it was at least 6 years ago and it wasnt my gear. There is also a video that they recorded (I was opening with my band for a local show) - I have never seen it because the fucking tape was passed around like loose Lucy. -D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 There is a straight up GOLDMINE posted here: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/487747-metallica-sound-1983-2008-audio-samples.html EDIT bwahahaha Just read the whole trhead. I don't recognise the two "bonus" guitar clips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted April 28, 2009 Members Share Posted April 28, 2009 The Creeping Death guitar track sounds a hell of a lot thicker & richer than the Master of Puppets guitar track. Reverb ftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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