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A community, vs. a visitor?


rockinrobby

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Why is it that every time I log in? Which is either daily? or maybe every other day? I see a new post saying,

 

HEY! CHECK OUT MY NEW SONG MAN!!

 

And when I look? That person has "one post?" Or 3? Why is it that people do not understand "the very basic concept of a community?" In my opinion, you have to be some sort of "retard" to do this, to make that kind of post? To not understand the fact that you're walking in to someone's livingroom with your pants down?

 

Why does it happen over and over again? Why are people such "duce bags" (definition, please note, this is not profanity, a duce bag is a bag in which one keeps their duces when they carry cards and are preparing to play a card game, you see, the duces are very special cards? and must be treated and handled differently?) What is it with these duce bags? That makes them feel entitled to walk in to someone elses's livingroom? And rip off their pants? And say? TAKE A LOOK A THESE!!?? Without either some negative, or lack-0-response?

 

(hangs head, rips off pants, and walks away...)

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Yeah, we get our drive-by posters here at HCSW. But think about it, 1 post or 3 posts is a start. Gotta start somewhere, so why not post a song or an entire website full of songs for review? :o

 

And no one really takes you seriously around here if you've got under 1K posts. :poke:

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1000 posts!? wow i have good mind to reply to this over 900 times just to get my numbers up ha.

 

Like you say, everyone has to start somewhere - i guess its worse when people ask you to review their songs and then never reply to any other threads - kinda defies the point of a forum

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Why is it that every time I log in? Which is either daily? or maybe every other day? I see a new post saying,


HEY! CHECK OUT MY NEW SONG MAN!!


And when I look? That person has "one post?" Or 3? Why is it that people do not understand "the very basic concept of a community?" In my opinion, you have to be some sort of "retard" to do this, to make that kind of post? To not understand the fact that you're walking in to someone's livingroom with your pants down?


Why does it happen over and over again? Why are people such "duce bags" (definition, please note, this is not profanity, a duce bag is a bag in which one keeps their duces when they carry cards and are preparing to play a card game, you see, the duces are very special cards? and must be treated and handled differently?) What is it with these duce bags? That makes them feel entitled to walk in to someone elses's livingroom? And rip off their pants? And say? TAKE A LOOK A THESE!!?? Without either some negative, or lack-0-response?


(hangs head, rips off pants, and walks away...)

 

Wow, that sure worked you up :) Want me to reach down and untwist your panties, Sally? :)

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Hmmm...what if you've read over 1000 posts but never posted because of said duce baggery? I mean it's not like you're going to be invited in. You have to door-crash at some point right? And since nobody wants to hear your opinion if you have

I guess you do it by responding to a thread like this. :wave:

 

Voila, first post. :lol:

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Hmmm...what if you've read over 1000 posts but never posted because of said duce baggery? I mean it's not like you're going to be invited in. You have to door-crash at some point right? And since nobody wants to hear your opinion if you have I guess you do it by responding to a thread like this.
:wave:

Voila, first post.
:lol:

 

We're all vain enough to accept feedback, especially positive feedback, from a first-time poster.

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It's not the amount of posts, it's the willingness to help. When I post, I want help. I want feedback that points to the issues I'm blinded to. When I comment on someone's work, it's the same; I assume the guy posting the song wants input to use or not...

 

But when someone comes along and says, "Listen to me. Thanks. See ya."

 

Not cool, boopy.

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We're all vain enough to accept feedback, especially positive feedback, from a first-time poster.

 

There you go, 2 ways to bust in without being a total dick. BTW CM your blog is inspiring and is a great way to gain a different approach when you're stuck. Thanks loads. Sometimes just seeing someone else's approach can shake you out of a dead spot.

 

cheers! :thu:

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I don't know if it's my own perception of things but it seems that the number of drive-by's has increased since I started posting here. I ignore them but still I find them to be a real turn-off, along with all the off-topic posts we get here.

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Why is it that every time I log in? Which is either daily? or maybe every other day? I see a new post saying,


HEY! CHECK OUT MY NEW SONG MAN!!


And when I look? That person has "one post?" Or 3? Why is it that people do not understand "the very basic concept of a community?" In my opinion, you have to be some sort of "retard" to do this, to make that kind of post? To not understand the fact that you're walking in to someone's livingroom with your pants down?


Why does it happen over and over again? Why are people such "duce bags" (definition, please note, this is not profanity, a duce bag is a bag in which one keeps their duces when they carry cards and are preparing to play a card game, you see, the duces are very special cards? and must be treated and handled differently?) What is it with these duce bags? That makes them feel entitled to walk in to someone elses's livingroom? And rip off their pants? And say? TAKE A LOOK A THESE!!?? Without either some negative, or lack-0-response?


(hangs head, rips off pants, and walks away...)

I think the duce bag is where you keep your unused il Duce's...

 

mussa.jpg

 

Of course, they may well be past their expiration date. And some thought they smelled more than a little off from the start.

 

 

 

As the guy to whom the sometimes tricky task of wising folks up so often falls, I actually have a lot of sympathy for those who stumble in here, don't see all those stickies up at the top of the listings, and then do just what the viral/guerilla marketing 'gurus' tell them to: spam.

 

And, while, back in my day, cool people didn't brag about their music or their abilities -- Can you imagine the gentlemanly Chet Atkins bragging about being the fastest? Or John McLaughlin? -- that has clearly been set aside in this look-at-me-look-at-me phase of celebrity worship. People now think they're supposed to brag shamelessly -- often absurdly.

 

 

So... you know... folks are just doing what they think they're supposed to, in many cases.

 

I'm more interested in good strategies for conversion -- getting newcomers and visitors to see what we do here and see how it might work out for them and they might become a contributing part of a collegial, collaborative creative community. (You know it's creative because there's so much alliteration. ;) )

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Pretty fundamental facet of human existence. Each person is more important to themselves than to anyone else, etc. Most people either wise up or leave pretty quickly, tho.

That's what I'm getting at... while there is, the researchers tell us, an inherent human impulse to generosity (who says you can't unlearn instinct?), people are inundated with an overweening me-first/I'm right mentality -- even many religious institutions today promote such egocentricism and greed-makes-right thinking. (See il Duce above for the ultimate outcome of that kind of me-first thinking.)

 

People often seem to need to be reacquainted with the idea of enlightened self-interest, these days: the notion that there is a balance and equilibrium in the individual's relationship with others.

 

 

My old man used to talk about the book How to Win Friends and Influence People. I had always assumed it was all about manipulating people and selling them things they probably didn't want or need. But, on a lark, I picked up a copy at a high school book sale (benefiting the school library which was shorted by a school board that seemed to have an inherent distrust of books -- they even banned Mark Twain).

 

And I was bemused to find that the author, Dale Cargnegie, actually argued against manipulating people or selling them things they didn't need -- because, he said, that wasn't in the best interest of the potential customer and so would ultimately likely prove to be not in the best interest of the salesman or other business person. And, while he taught techniques to help a person break the ice with strangers and get to know potential customers -- he emphasized that business people should develop a genuine interest in others, if, for no other reason, that insincerity and outright lies are almost always found out, but, even more fundamentally, they will poison that relationship from the beginning.

 

Anyhow... obviously a lot of people just don't get the whole social compact idea, the notion that helping others benefits the person giving the assistance in ways not necessarily obvious.

 

But, I think, through positive example, people can gain a bigger picture understanding of themselves and their relations with others.

 

 

But... well... what do I know? I'm just the guy who hauls out the spam... ;)

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I see where y'all are going with the whole drive by thing. But as far as making a thread about a song instead of posting in the mp3 stickies, I would side with the new thread. Maybe it's just me, but I'm more likely to see it and ultimately listen to it if it has it's own thread. I do swing into the stickies in here and backstage but still, it seems far more effective to make a thread. I think it's kinda cool to listen to what other people make, regardless of where it is.

 

Do all of you swing into the stickies to see what people post? Or are you totally past the point of listening?

 

To be totally honest, if we had our demo out by the time I joined this forum, I would have posted it. And to think because a person has but a few posts, there's no real reason to listen to what they've got, is silly.

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I'm more interested in good strategies for
conversion
-- getting newcomers and visitors to see what we do here and see how it might work out for them and they might become a contributing part of a collegial, collaborative creative community.

 

 

:thu:

 

 

"collaborative creative community"

 

 

Alliteration aside, that's the joy of this place for me. To be able to safely share something that is unfinished and have a group of friendly, like minded, beret wearing creatives... help. Help by just reacting to your work.

 

"That's not flying for me I don't think cause..."

 

How invaluable is that? It's huge for me. Otherwise I have a bunch of half written, half decent work. I'd rather share to a group and get qualified input. And I gladly return the favor. Cause it might help you, but it definitely helps me to keep sharp.

 

No drive-bys.

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Hmmm...what if you've read over 1000 posts but never posted because of said duce baggery? I mean it's not like you're going to be invited in. You have to door-crash at some point right? And since nobody wants to hear your opinion if you have I guess you do it by responding to a thread like this.
:wave:

Voila, first post.
:lol:

Hey, welcome, Super! :wave:

 

 

I think the problem isn't with folks who actually have lurked and are so probably familiar with the short list of rules but folks who, doing what the marketers tell them to do, find this or other work-oriented forums through a search engine, don't take the time to check out the rules and/or forum culture, and then create a sort of free advertising post for themselves that both ignores the rules and the prevailing community culture -- a culture that largely would welcome a first post asking for constructive criticism on a work-in-progress but which has an often nasty abreaction to sudden intrusions of band spam.

 

 

Now, it probably would be smart (see How to Win Friends riff above) for new folks looking for feedback to give a little feedback or otherwise interact and contribute before asking forum members to spend anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes or more giving hopefully thoughtful feedback.

 

But, you know, I do expect people to be people and a lot of folks' first real participation here is often asking for feedback. And many of those folks go on to become productive, contributing members. Others don't... but I don't let that ruin my day. It's like selling... some nibble, some buy, some walk. It's the way of the game...

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We're all vain enough to accept feedback, especially positive feedback, from a first-time poster.

Oh, gosh yes.

 

As Dale Carnegie used to say, Find something to compliment -- don't make it up, but there's almost always something nice that can be said.

 

You'd be how powerful a genuine, sincere compliment can be.

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I don't know if it's my own perception of things but it seems that the number of drive-by's has increased since I started posting here. I ignore them but still I find them to be a real turn-off, along with all the off-topic posts we get here.

Oh... so you brought all those spammers in... :D

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I see where y'all are going with the whole drive by thing. But as far as making a thread about a song instead of posting in the mp3 stickies, I would side with the new thread. Maybe it's just me, but I'm more likely to see it and ultimately listen to it if it has it's own thread. I do swing into the stickies in here and backstage but still, it seems far more effective to make a thread. I think it's kinda cool to listen to what other people make, regardless of where it is.


Do all of you swing into the stickies to see what people post? Or are you totally past the point of listening?


To be totally honest, if we had our demo out by the time I joined this forum, I would have posted it. And to think because a person has but a few posts, there's no real reason to listen to what they've got, is silly.

 

The bottom line is that the Share Your Mp3s sticky and the Monthly Showcase Threads are where we want folks to post their finished works, promo, bragging, etc -- while creating a thread is intended to be reserved for getting feedback/constructive criticism on a composition you are actively working on. (Or for discussing legitimate songwriting issues.)

 

The problem is -- and if you've been around songwriting forums you probably understand this -- that without such a rule, a forum will quickly fill up with one-post Listen to my band's new song threads -- threads that no one responds to, songs that no one listens to -- and then all those 'empty' posts crowd out legitimate requests for help with a song in progress or genuine discussions of songwriting issues and craft.

 

 

I think the thing that some folks have about post count is that it's seen by some as a short hand... if someone's very first post is asking for people to devote 5-15 minutes to listen to their song and give comments -- a lot of folks here think about all the other folks who flew in, asked for and got help, and then were never seen again. All get, no give.

 

It's not so much that they're automatically assuming that anyone asking for help on their first post will be a taker... it's just a world-wise kind of thing. Kind of like how not everyone begging for money in front of the 7-11 is going to turn around and by booze or crack -- but, at a certain point, you may figure it's best to assume they will be... ;)

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i like to think that my Bragging is Absurd, perhaps even Ironic. one has to be Cocksure if one is to create public art, in Character, and that Character has to be able to get up on stage in front of a {censored}wad of strangers an give it everthing they've got, that's not human man, so i think it's natural that in the progression of that personality people would do some searching on the net and find a little place like this to post on, see what's what, take some {censored}, give some {censored}, and roll on, but after that initial experimentation it might not be for them, just the tip, i'd never been part of a forum before this with any seriousness.

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I don't even recall you bragging, ES... whether it was absurd or ironic, it must have been subtle... ;)

 

I will say that my cultural background ingrained a certain strategic social modesty into me. It was the thinking -- and I was ultimately persuaded -- that bragging just alienates others and makes them want to knock you off the pedestal you're putting yourself up on. Which, you know, can be fun when you're playing the dozens... ("I heard your latest tune the other day... but I got to my floor and had to get off the elevator before I heard the hook. I hope...")

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Kind of like how not
everyone
begging for money in front of the 7-11 is going to turn around and by booze or crack -- but, at a certain point, you may figure it's
best
to assume they will be...
;)

 

Last year I pulled off the freeway to home. And there was that guy with the sign.

 

HUNGRY, ANYTHING WILL HELP, GOD BLESS

 

So I asked my daughter to reach back and grab the newly bought, hot roasted chicken from the grocery bag and hand it to me. I in turn handed it to him out my window. As we drove off on our green light I watched him in my rear view toss the chicken into the landscape.

 

I guess he was more a burger man?

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Yeah... I once nearly got into a fight with this junior-pimp because he had his woman -- with a baby in her arms -- begging out in front of the 7-11 -- and she got really indignant when I offered to buy her food. All of a sudden the guy comes from off to the side of the building -- his chest all puffed out like he's suddenly proud -- and starts yelling and trying to intimidate me. I might look like I'm from the 'burbs but I've been around and it seemed to surprise him that I didn't skulk away or fish up some money. Pretty soon there was this weird scene between a bunch of regular folks and this guy, his woman, a couple of pals who'd been drinking in a car near by, and this young woman going by who apparently took this to be a case of the man (I guess that would be me) hassling a poor down and outer...

 

Interesting times.

 

 

Another time I was up in my own (quite urban) neigborhood and I saw a young guy who really looked out of place sitting on a curb by a McDonalds. Something told me he wasn't the usual urban bum and I offered -- without being asked -- to buy him a burger. I went in and bought him one and gave it to him and it looked like it was the first time someone had done something nice for him in weeks. You just never know...

 

Still, at least in this town, there are a lot of folks trying to help, a number of shelters and missions. And a lot of times when you see folks out begging, they're there because they think they need what the shelters won't give them...

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