Members rhino55 Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yeah, see I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 rhino55, I'd still recommend a teacher for this. I've noticed that many of the self-taught theory students I've encountered tend to have holes in their knowledge -- or, worse, they just learn incorrectly and apply concepts in strange ways. Also, I've rarely encountered a musician that has had his creativity stifled by knowledge, though I've run into many who have had creativity stifled by ignorance. Theory is a tool that is best utilized for analysis; it's not the best tool for composition. "Thinking vs feeling" seems like a false dichotomy for the creative process. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rockinrobby Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 It's all about "triads..." Triads are your friend. Or as your local news paper may suggest? Try adds! Chords are composed of triads as Bones (I'M A DOCTOR NOT A MIRACLE WORKER!) above is indicating. Note that each of his groupings has 3 notes (tri) And there are major and minor triads? Music theory 101. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 rhino55, I'd still recommend a teacher for this. I've noticed that many of the self-taught theory students I've encountered tend to have holes in their knowledge -- or, worse, they just learn incorrectly and apply concepts in strange ways. Also, I've rarely encountered a musician that has had his creativity stifled by knowledge, though I've run into many who have had creativity stifled by ignorance. Theory is a tool that is best utilized for analysis; it's not the best tool for composition. "Thinking vs feeling" seems like a false dichotomy for the creative process. YMMV. You're right, a teacher certainly wont hurt. Depending on a persons financial situation a good text book to work through should do the trick. I've known alot of people who were great at theory but couldnt create anything in their own voice. The thinking vs feeling is more about the way someones brain works than anything else. From Grace's posts, much like myself I think, she seems like she is more about feeling the song than thinking it. When I personally tried to get into theory in the past I found it hindered me. I had a hard time differentiating between analysis and composition, but you're right. I think it is imperative that a songwriter has at least a basic understanding of what it is they're writing, if only to be able to communicate with other musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 "I was thinking about Mozart pianos sonatas in the car today and the first half of most of them only use 1-4-5. It's equally good enough for Blink-182, Chuck Berry, Mozart. Ain't that something?" - honeyiscool Then again, creating melodies for chord progressions developed from 1-4-5 has been pretty much exhausted. John That's just ig'nant, yo. If 1-4-5 hadn't been exhausted from Mozart's time to Blink-182's time, what makes you think that things will ever change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rockinrobby Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 I only have 1 .45, but I'm thinking about getting another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rockinrobby Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 Then you have the intervals:D -> F = 3 half-steps = minor 3rdF -> A = 4 half-steps = major 3rd People are telling me I need a 12 step program? What key would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny-Boy Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 That's just ig'nant, yo. If 1-4-5 hadn't been exhausted from Mozart's time to Blink-182's time, what makes you think that things will ever change? Okay, then I guess I'm ignorant. Of course the framework here is "songwriting". Yeah, a new Mozart sonata could be composed. Though there wouldn't be much new in the melodic content (scale runs and unimaginative melodies). One could always go the outrageously dissonant route. But probably wouldn't be very appealing in the 1-4-5 realm. The secret of originality lies in new chord structures. Hey, that's my opinion. It's the only one I have. Peace brother, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 Okay, then I guess I'm ignorant. Of course the framework here is "songwriting". Yeah, a new Mozart sonata could be composed. Though there wouldn't be much new in the melodic content (scale runs and unimaginative melodies). One could always go the outrageously dissonant route. But probably wouldn't be very appealing in the 1-4-5 realm. The secret of originality lies in new chord structures. Hey, that's my opinion. It's the only one I have. Peace brother, John Strictly looking at the notes, I'm inclined to agree with you. But a new story and delivery can certainly make a pretty nice veneer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny-Boy Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 Strictly looking at the notes, I'm inclined to agree with you. But a new story and delivery can certainly make a pretty nice veneer. I agree Oswlek. The production can take a common song to a new level. John:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny-Boy Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yeah, see I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 Grace... You should take the time to learn all the Major, Minor, Augmented, and Diminished triads in all inversions (and all keys). Doesn't take that long to learn them. These are part of the raw materials we all use in our composing. You can Google to find them. Best, John You dont even need to memorize them, though I'm sure that might help. Once you learn the intervals that make up each type of chord you can figure them out in just a few seconds. It's especially easy to visualize on the piano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 Grace... You should take the time to learn all the Major, Minor, Augmented, and Diminished triads in all inversions (and all keys). Doesn't take that long to learn them. These are part of the raw materials we all use in our composing. You can Google to find them. Best, John I have to agree. And it won't take very long before something will click into place and you'll understand the pattern and how to apply it to any key. I can still remember the moment I realized how a 7th was composed... {flashback smiley} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 10, 2011 Members Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm of the opinion that every usable chord progression in pop music has already been used hundreds of times. It's what you make of them. Nobody listens to Green Day's "Welcome to Paradise" and thinks, eww, Pachelbel canon chords. They just think, what a nice melody. People get so hung up on chord progressions. Perhaps too many people, especially guitar-based songwriters, tend to compose melodies to chord progressions instead of fitting the chords to the melody, which I think makes for more melodic, catchy songs. I-IV-V is still an excellent framework. If you compose pleasing melodies, you will find that they often use the I-IV-V chords by default. The reason why C-F-C-G and C-Am-F-G progressions are popular is because so many good melodies work with them, not because people like being unoriginal. And lastly, being original in terms of the mechanics of the music you're writing, I find, is quite overrated. There are so many other ways to make your music fresh and new. Even if you covered someone else's song, if you're a good musician, it should sound original because it has your personality in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnBenussi Posted February 11, 2011 Members Share Posted February 11, 2011 Oh no!! When I saw that you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rockinrobby Posted February 11, 2011 Members Share Posted February 11, 2011 Every progression has NOT been used.. DON'T buy in to this lie!! I'm about to release a new love song which will rock your very foundations of understanding of music? Theory? And love songs... Get ready people... It comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted February 11, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2011 LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zaccus Posted February 12, 2011 Members Share Posted February 12, 2011 Gotta make my first post here sometime, so why not on this thread? IMHO, chords don't matter much. Any 3 or more notes played at the same time is a chord, and yes, they've all been discovered and neatly cataloged. My suggestion would be to focus on what you want to do melodically, then build your chords to justify your melody. It doesn't matter what the chords are called, all that matters is how they sound. Until you've read up on harmony, chord names won't make any sense. It's a waste of time trying to memorize them all. There's a logical way it all works, and I'll bet you could learn it in a week if you wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted February 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2011 I think everyone in this thread underestimates the degree of stupidity that is at work in my brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny-Boy Posted February 12, 2011 Members Share Posted February 12, 2011 "It's a waste of time trying to memorize them all" - ZaccusDon't be swayed by that opinion Grace. Learning is never a waste of time. That's why I suggested you learn all the Major, Minor, Augmented, and Diminished triads in all inversions. Piano (or even a cheap Casio) would be the best way to learn them (easy to play them while learning them). All the other chords are built on these. Start with C major: C-E-G (root position), E-G-C (1st inversion), G-C-E (second inversion). Then go to C-Minor: C-Eb-G (root position), Eb-G-C (1st inversion), G-C-Eb (2nd. inversion). C-Diminished: C-Eb-Gb (root position), Eb-Gb-C (1st inversion), Gb-C-Eb (2nd inversion). C-Augmented: C-E-G# (root position), E-G#-C (1st inversion), G# -C-E (2nd inversion). Notice when you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Russell L Posted February 12, 2011 Members Share Posted February 12, 2011 Whatever way you try to remember all this, also try to train your ear to hear the differences between major/minor/diminished and between inversions. It just takes experience, and experience takes time at it. It will come. Eventually, you will be hearing something on the radio and KNOW right off what it is. I bet you can already do that to some extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cliftonb Posted February 12, 2011 Members Share Posted February 12, 2011 Wow. From the first post to the last, I am utterly lost. I feel more out of place here than Guy de Maupassant in a McDonald's. I never formerly learned chord progressions. I hear stuff that I like harmonically that tends to weave themselves into my compositions, but I never spent any time seriously analyzing them. To start studying them now after doing it unthinkingly all this time would feel weird. Overall, I think a good ear will take you farther than theory ever would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny-Boy Posted February 13, 2011 Members Share Posted February 13, 2011 Wow. From the first post to the last, I am utterly lost. I feel more out of place here than Guy de Maupassant in a McDonald's. I never formerly learned chord progressions. I hear stuff that I like harmonically that tends to weave themselves into my compositions, but I never spent any time seriously analyzing them. To start studying them now after doing it unthinkingly all this time would feel weird. Overall, I think a good ear will take you farther than theory ever would. It's not so much analyzing as it is identifying Clift. Grace wants to be able to identify chord names. A good starting place is understanding triads. I think it's a good thing to understand the raw materials used to build one's musical creations. As far as analyzing; read my signature. Best, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted February 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2011 I don't actually CARE about chord names except when I need to tell someone else who may be playing them later. I DO need a memory aid to help me keep track of where to put my fingers for each chord change, as I find it difficult to focus and get them all memorised when I try and do a song the whole way through. Cause to me, the keyboard notes are just an expanse of whites and blacks...with not much differentiation. So I lose track of where exactly my fingers go for each chord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted February 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 Uh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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