Old men Songwriters aren't as good as Young men Songwriters

[Greg_L]

OK, let me rephrase, because my previous post was slightly harsh. Here is the reality of how men perceive women and it is a reality that men learn as they grow older... In general, when it comes to the women immediately around you, men (meaning 18 years old or older) will set a floor (usually 18) and a ceiling (usually two years older than the man currently is) for what he considers to be an attractive or desirable age in a woman. Thus, a man who is 23 might be attracted to 18 to 25 yo women. These numbers will vary, but the concept is true. With me? OK, so the reality is that as the floor does not increase with the same pace that the ceiling does. So a 45 yo man (which I happen to be) will be attracted to women between 21 and 47. See how that works? At 21 years old I would have said that 21 yo women are attractive and 47 yo women are not. At 45 years old, I say that BOTH are attractive. Your attitudes change over time, and I would argue that they change for the better. If I could go back and trade places with myself at 21, I wouldn't. Life is much better and more full now. But that's just me.

 

 

Yeah but you have to think that way. The roles are reversed. As a 21 yr old, you could potentially pull chicks between 21 and 47 all night long. A 21 yr old chick was your age, and tons of 47 yr old broads would bed a young stud 21 yr old. Now, it's backwards. You might still find 21 yr old chicks attractive, but you have little to no chance of landing one, so you almost have to settle for the older chicks. You could call it "wiser" if you want, but the reality is the reality. You're just old now and unless you're rich you're not pulling any 21 yr old trim.

 

 

*Edit: None of that wasn't meant as a flame or a bash or an insult.

[richardmac]

 

Yeah but you have to think that way. The roles are reversed. As a 21 yr old, you could potentially pull chicks between 21 and 47 all night long. A 21 yr old chick was your age, and tons of 47 yr old broads would bed a young stud 21 yr old. Now, it's backwards. You might still find 21 yr old chicks attractive, but you have little to no chance of landing one, so you almost have to settle for the older chicks. You could call it "wiser" if you want, but the reality is the reality. You're just old now and unless you're rich you're not pulling any 21 yr old trim. *Edit: None of that wasn't meant as a flame or a bash or an insult.

 

 

You're missing the point. And I'm not insulted, though I do appreciate the asterisk. No worries!

 

Anyway, you're missing the point. A 45 yo man does not find 45 yo women attractive because he HAS to - that's not the case. You find them attractive because your views and opinions and what you consider attractive change when you get older. It's not a conscious thing, like you "decide" to do it... it just happens.

[bee3]

David Gilmour's 2006 album "On an Island" is exceptional. Far better than his solo album that he released in the late 70's. I could listen to it everyday for a year and not tire of it.

[Surrealistic]

You're missing the point. And I'm not insulted, though I do appreciate the asterisk. No worries! Anyway, you're missing the point. A 45 yo man does not find 45 yo women attractive because he HAS to - that's not the case. You find them attractive because your views and opinions and what you consider attractive change when you get older. It's not a conscious thing, like you "decide" to do it... it just happens.

 

 

Exactly. I'd go further and say that whilst I can appreciate the attractiveness of a 21 yr old, I really would not be interested in her (even if I weren't already married). Whether or not I'd have a chance has nothing to do with it.

[TIMP3]

I must be way behind the curve because I did not write my first song until well into my thirties.

[tim_7string]

You're missing the point. And I'm not insulted, though I do appreciate the asterisk. No worries! Anyway, you're missing the point. A 45 yo man does not find 45 yo women attractive because he HAS to - that's not the case. You find them attractive because your views and opinions and what you consider attractive change when you get older. It's not a conscious thing, like you "decide" to do it... it just happens.

 

It's called maturity from experience. Most people go through it.

 

I admit that I had more restrictive thoughts about women and life when I was younger. I was with a 30 year old woman when I was 21 and I was completely fine with it, but as far as body types and looks and all that, I definitely was more superficial about such things.

 

By my later twenties, and after appreciating a lot more women over time, I realized I was being somewhat narrow-minded. The personalities of the women I have known were varied and I met some really cool ladies...and some bimbos lol. But if I had been stuck in a bubble of only dating a certain type or not being with any at all, I probably would have seen a 20 year old Playboy model as the ultimate ideal and the only possible choice.

 

Thankfully, that has not been the case. I am very glad to have experienced various things over the years. It has definitely shaped my songwriting as well (see how I brought that back on topic? haha ). I know there are a lot of people that appreciate the songs I wrote in my early thirties more than the ones I wrote in my late teens/early twenties. Those earlier songs do sound more naive, but that is part of their charm. The later tunes definitely sound more experienced and apparently have resonated with older people (i.e. my age group).

 

So, it makes perfect sense that a young person would not appreciate something from an older person. They aren't speaking to that age group. They are speaking to their peers. People who have grown up with Clapton and Knopfler will be more interested in their songs as a result.

[Lee Knight]

When I was young I wrote about the struggle for her understand me.
Now I write about the struggle to understand.

[bee3]

When I was younger, I never wrote songs by myself... always partnered with someone. And we never wrote simple songs... we were guilty of overthinking everything and ended up writing 15 minute songs with intricate instrumental passages... very prog rock/hippie type of stuff.

Now... I like them simple.

[Oswlek]

The older I get the better I was.

[svejkist]

Yeah but you have to think that way. The roles are reversed. As a 21 yr old, you could potentially pull chicks between 21 and 47 all night long. A 21 yr old chick was your age, and tons of 47 yr old broads would bed a young stud 21 yr old. Now, it's backwards. You might still find 21 yr old chicks attractive, but you have little to no chance of landing one, so you almost have to settle for the older chicks. You could call it "wiser" if you want, but the reality is the reality. You're just old now and unless you're rich you're not pulling any 21 yr old trim. *Edit: None of that wasn't meant as a flame or a bash or an insult.

 

 

This is exactly the opposite of my experience. The older I get the easier it is to attract women of all ages. If anything, the younger ones are more interested. I'm not really interested in twenty-somethings, but they approach me as often as women my own age. I think they like the stench of impending death.

[svejkist]

Ya see, Duke? He agrees. lol. I'm 32.

 

 

Too bad. Give us a call in three years. ;-)

[Greg_L]

You're missing the point. And I'm not insulted, though I do appreciate the asterisk. No worries! Anyway, you're missing the point. A 45 yo man does not find 45 yo women attractive because he HAS to - that's not the case. You find them attractive because your views and opinions and what you consider attractive change when you get older. It's not a conscious thing, like you "decide" to do it... it just happens.

My point is that your tastes probably change because they have to. It's like being on a desert island and eating bugs to survive. When you're starving hungry, those bugs might be pretty damn tasty.

[Lee Knight]

My point is that your tastes probably change because they have to. It's like being on a desert island and eating bugs to survive. When you're starving hungry, those bugs might be pretty damn tasty.

I agree. But the reverse is true. A young musician might not get some music he or she perceives as lame. Wimpy. Not real enough. They lack the experience, they lack time on earth enough to have the depth of perception that an older musician has.

They don't get it cause they can't. Yet.

Of course our tastes are informed by our environment. And by our accumulated experience. As much as we lose over time, we gain. If we choose to and not curl and die.

[Greg_L]

I agree. But the reverse is true. A young musician might not get some music he or she perceives as lame. Wimpy. Not real enough. They lack the experience, they lack time on earth enough to have to depth of perception that an older musician has. They don't get it cause they can't. Yet. Of course our tastes are informed by our environment. And by our accumulated experience. As much as we lose, we gain.

 

 

That's great and all, but we're talking about dames here.

[Lee Knight]

That's great and all, but we're talking about dames here.

 

 

So expand your mind and see the correlation.

[Greg_L]

So expand your mind and see the correlation.

 

 

I see it, I just don't agree. You're really reaching here.

[Greg_L]

Duke, stay young dude. Even as you get older. Stay young. Don't ever allow yourself to become a geezer.

[Lee Knight]

I see it, I just don't agree. You're really reaching here.

Maybe cause I "have to?"

[Greg_L]

Maybe cause I "have to?"

Probably. It's only natural for you old guys to staunchly defend your oldness, no matter how ridiculous it seems.

[Lee Knight]

Probably. It's only natural for you old guys to staunchly defend your oldness, no matter how ridiculous it seems.

As "natural" as it is for a young guy to blindly believe youth wins.

As "natural" as it to poke at the geezers. Like whistling past the graveyard to cover the shakes with toughness.

It's all "natural". Ain't nothing wrong with it.

[rhino55]

 

Probably. It's only natural for you old guys to staunchly defend your oldness, no matter how ridiculous it seems.

 

 

You have no patience. Anticipation is what makes now special.

 

Anticipation is easy to muster when you have sex with different people. It takes more maturity and alot more skill to get the same person off for the rest of your life. Alot of 40+ year old women, the cougars you claim done exist, are coming out of failed marriages. Chances are they had to learn how to make do with a man they despised. Give them a piece of strange in his 20s and watch what they can do. I think every 22 year old guy should try it at least once.

[DukeOfBoom]

I tend to agree with everything Greg has written.

But at the same time, it's important to acknowledge changing tastes, and the correlation to maturity/growing older. This is chicken and egg though. Do your tastes change because you grow older? Do your tastes change because you're tired of listening to the same stuff over-and-over again? Do your tastes change because all of a sudden you're listening to new stuff that you've never heard before (moved to a new city?)?


On the Duke's Tastes
I for one, used to love heavy metal. Zakk Wylde's Black Label Society was my favorite band. I don't listen to much metal at all anymore, but I'm still focused on rock. I need the aggressiveness and virility.


On Women
At the same time, I just can't imagine any 45-50 year old guy prefering a 45 year old women to a 25 year old with nice, fresh & supple flesh. The 25 year old is not only physically far superior, but comes with less baggage as well.

On "Mature" Songs
Also, I'd like to point out that Hank Williams Sr songs - many of which are respected for their maturity (think "Ramblin Man") - were all written when he was in his 20s before he croaked. This really does substantiate my argument that most of the best songwriters all hit their peak as young men. Of course, we'll never know what Williams would have pumped out 20 years later if he survived, but he would more than likely follow the bell-curve and being a long downward trajectory.

[Greg_L]

As "natural" as it is for a young guy to blindly believe youth wins. As "natural" as it to poke at the geezers. Like whistling past the graveyard to cover the shakes with toughness. It's all "natural". Ain't nothing wrong with it.

Lol. You probably got gassed just typing all that. Take a nap.

[Greg_L]

You have no patience. Anticipation is what makes now special. Anticipation is easy to muster when you have sex with different people. It takes more maturity and alot more skill to get the same person off for the rest of your life. Alot of 40+ year old women, the cougars you claim done exist, are coming out of failed marriages. Chances are they had to learn how to make do with a man they despised. Give them a piece of strange in his 20s and watch what they can do. I think every 22 year old guy should try it at least once.

You've completely missed the point. Nice try though.

[DukeOfBoom]

And I must work today, which will limit my involvement in this discussion.