Lenny's Opus

[LeonardScaper]

Originally Posted by LCK

Maybe you're thinking that the next "movement" in your opus will pull us out of the melodic whirlpool you've got us spinning around in and provide us with some relief from the "tedium?"

I am thinking exactly that. And I'm hoping that each movement brings more clarity while presenting more questions like this....that can, in turn, be answered by the next piece. I am trying to think of this project differently that how we think of our individual songs. In my mind () it will be judged almost as one would judge....an opera.

Did I just say that?

I think that this opus will be a very adaptive work, in that all of what I have done thus far will be able to be changed in subtle (or not so subtle) ways to become one cohesive presentation in the end. With the tools that we have now this in emmanently possible, right?

Anyway...tonight I listened through to what I have done and then just played the piano. I tracked the very first thing that came to mind and I believe that will be the bones of the third movement.

[grace_slick]

Looking forward to hearing all of it...

[LeonardScaper]

[LCK]

Originally Posted by grace_slick

Looking forward to hearing all of it...

Me too.

LCK

[grace_slick]

Finally listened. I am enjoying what I'm hearing so far but I want to hear it ALL finished. *impatient*

Hmm. I don't think anything is too repetitive at this point. This second part of the piece seems to be something along the lines of...a lack of movement. The character began (in the first part) with quite a bit of upheavel and action going on. He discovered he was blind, he had just arrived at a certain place in his mind and in his world. In the second part, he is diving down which is movement to an extent, but everything feels like it slows down a lot. I can't even put my finger on it that much. It wouldn't make a difference to my feelings about this if the music was faster or more active. It is just the feeling and mood of this part of the overall piece of music. It is the slow, introspective, still part. Very still. Almost incubatory. In fact, yes. It is incubatory (is that even a word?) So to this end, a lack of movement is necessary. And thus, any sort of repetition in this part to me seems more hypnotic than any kind of tedium. It makes me feel like a slow churning of things, a swirling of waters around and around and around, a slow kicking at the bottom of the sea to keep the character down there while he needs to be there.

And then I expect the third part to be some kind of revelation of sorts, even if it is only from within the character's own mind and soul, and the action involved is also only confined to character internally.

Oh, and also, in the second part there was a sort of string sound coming in...a strong rising up in the background of something that reminded me of large waves surging to the surface from somewhere deeply beneath. I wonder if more of this might appear in the third part of the piece, along with the pianos. Maybe.

This is really cool.

[oldgitplayer]

Lenny's Opus in 5 Movements.

Shifts in tempo ? Take your pick maestro.......

Larghissimo

[grace_slick]

OMG, how the hell many fancy names are there for the tempo of a song!?

[rodney_wrinkles]

Originally Posted by grace_slick

Looking forward to hearing all of it...

Originally Posted by LCK

Me too.

LCK

I am really envious of your musical talent, Leonard. I could never imagine doing something like this.

[LeonardScaper]

Originally Posted by grace_slick

Oh, and also, in the second part there was a sort of string sound coming in...a strong rising up in the background of something that reminded me of large waves surging to the surface from somewhere deeply beneath.

I wanted a strong electric guitar thing to carry this piece....don't do that often. So I plugged a guitar that sports a Gibson P94 single coil monster into a small cranked tube combo amp. I hit the chord I wanted and when I cut it sharply off there was this way cool overtone thing coming from the strings of my old Kalamazoo which was sitting a few feet from the amplifier.

So....I put another microphone in front of the Kalamazoo and hit the red button.

Originally Posted by oldgitplayer

Lenny's Opus in 5 Movements.

Shifts in tempo ?

Might be more than 5 movements...definitely shifts in tempo. In fact during the night I put a short acoustic guitar interlude in between the first two pieces.

The third movement started last night at the piano......should be quite a bit different than the first two.

[Oswlek]

a lack of movement.

I was thinking about this as I typed my earlier message and I forgot to mention it.

I think Grace's comment could definitely work, but if that is the target I think you need to bring the song down even more.

Right now the guitar and vocal phrasing are so simiar to the first song that it never really evolves from that feel. How about stripping it way down and targetting something like the first half of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG36n8vFAmE

Frankly, if you just want to offer that bit of stasis before evolves into the next piece, you could probably cut "Bottom" in half and it would do the job.

Feel free to ignore this, Len, just thinking out loud.

[LeonardScaper]

Hey Justin....

I took a look at that option just now....considered cutting the last verse. There are things, though, in that verse that need to be said in order to move the story line forward.

I'm hoping that the short acoustic interlude that I have sandwiched in will help matters. It also may provide a place for some spacey lyrics as in your example. This link has the interlude.

http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

I'll post the beginning of the third movement later and we can see if that helps matters as well.

Thanks for all of the help everyone.

Is this fun....or what?

[Oswlek]

Yes, that interlude does help things, though I'm still feeling a disconnect between the melody and the arrangement in the verses. When you hit "until my..." I am immediately sold, but prior to that it just seems off somehow.

You don't have a nylon string guitar, do you? Listening to this version, the gears started creaking and an idea to replace the guitar track with a nylon version and drop everything else popped into my head. I think it might work. In fact, I think the sparseness might even play in to the "just me and the bottom" better than making it so grand.

Some of us need to layer our songs to keep them interesting, your songs seem to work best when they remain simple.

BTW, I like "Blind" more on a third listen than I did the first two times. That is a great song.

[rhino55]

Originally Posted by LeonardScaper

Hmmmmm........need to consider this as it is a very important distinction.

My first reaction to your astute observation is that he actually is quite aware of his plight and even though he does not know specifically how to 'get right' he does have an instinctual feeling about what he must do....or maybe where he must go.

I think the line itself, "I need to be at the bottom" is a great way to start a song, but where it sits now, as the follow up to the first in part of this overarching concept, it isn't getting the job done.

I think you're incorporating good metaphors, but you're not explaining what they mean. I think they can work without you really explaining them, but you need to draw the correlations for the listener.

[LeonardScaper]

Originally Posted by Oswlek

Listening to this version, the gears started creaking and an idea to replace the guitar track with a nylon version and drop everything else popped into my head. I think it might work. In fact, I think the sparseness might even play in to the "just me and the bottom" better than making it so grand.

No nylon strings.....

But you and I are on the same page with that which is why I did bring everything down to just guitar and vocals for that last verse.

I appreciate that about 'Blind'. I find, though, that after repeated listens I am realizing that I have given myself quite a challenge in trying to tie in all of the things that are in there.

Originally Posted by rhino55

I think the line itself, "I need to be at the bottom" is a great way to start a song, but where it sits now, as the follow up to the first in part of this overarching concept, it isn't getting the job done.

I am feeling that as well.

I'm thinking that some sort of lyric in that interlude might help matters here. But I'm also wondering if I should scrap the whole concept of tying those two songs together and write something that makes a better transition.

I'll want to make that decision soon because as of now I have the third piece dropping vertiginously down from that heavy, guitar driven thing to nothing but piano and vocals. I should be able to give you a taste of that soon.

[rhino55]

Originally Posted by LeonardScaper

No nylon strings.....

But you and I are on the same page with that which is why I did bring everything down to just guitar and vocals for that last verse.

I appreciate that about 'Blind'. I find, though, that after repeated listens I am realizing that I have given myself quite a challenge in trying to tie in all of the things that are in there.




I am feeling that as well.

I'm thinking that some sort of lyric in that interlude might help matters here. But I'm also wondering if I should scrap the whole concept of tying those two songs together and write something that makes a better transition.

I'll want to make that decision soon because as of now I have the third piece dropping vertiginously down from that heavy, guitar driven thing to nothing but piano and vocals. I should be able to give you a taste of that soon.

sweet

I don't think you need another transitional piece unless you are adamant about these two not changing. While a lyric on the interlude could accomplish your goal, I like the idea of having some brief instrumentals.

I already posted this, but I think something as simple as opening with

I can't see the stars above
I might as well be at the bottom


or

I might as well be at the bottom
since I can't see the stars above


would alleviate all the issues for me.

[LCK]

I just listened to the new track and I have to say that parts I & II sound much too similar to my ears.

I really like both songs on their own. They're both very good. And I like the transition (though it might be a tad long). But together the two songs don't sound different enough to me. They're supposed to be the beginnings of a suite yet to me they sound to me like minor variations on the same musical -- and to some extent the same lyrical -- theme. Sorry!

Maybe I'm off-base, but I'd like the 2nd piece to be completely different, melodically and rhythmically. The only thing I would keep is the line -- "I want to dive .............. to the bottom." And I'd repeat that phrase, with minor variations, 3 more times.

LCK

[LeonardScaper]

I am leaning in that direction, Lee. But.......I have just put together a possible longer interlude with lyrics. The enclosed link is very short...just the interlude.

http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

One more sunrise
One more smile
I wonder if I'll see them again
Will I keep having dreams of
Things I've forgotten

I used to close my eyes
For a little while
And reach for the wind

But if I can't see
The stars up above
I might as well be at the bottom

Definitely need to take a break....then that soft piano thing.

[Oswlek]

Oh man, I love that new interlude. Just love it.

But I still think the part that comes afterward is too similar.

Is there any way to nix the acoustic altogether and run with an electric after the cool opening strum? Will I ever stop tossing out random suggestions?

[LeonardScaper]

Originally Posted by Oswlek

Will I ever stop tossing out random suggestions?

Please don't.

Really glad you like that interlude...I like it as well.

That acoustic change could happen......or I could change it to my more normal picking style. That might not rock quite as hard. Chuckling........at the thought of Lenny rocking hard!

But.........for now here's the first idea for the third movement. Only a bit so far....

http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1

It's all around me now
Everything I've been
All I've ever done
And all I've never seen
It's all around me now
And I feel like I'm flying

A weight has been lifted
And I wonder what I'll find
I see now why I've been blind

[Oswlek]

That is awesome. Would make an amazing second movement off the interlude.

[LeonardScaper]

Ooohhh........maybe so.......

See?

This is why everybody listens to you.

[LCK]

Originally Posted by Oswlek

Oh man, I love that new interlude. Just love it.

But I still think the part that comes afterward is too similar.

I agree with both points above.

Justin is one of our resident chord mavens, so he'd have a better idea about if this would work or not, but it seems to me that the section after the interlude is partially about longing for a kind of peaceful, quiet death: an absence of struggle. What does that feeling sound like harmonically?

I think what you have now is angular and choppy, and what you need are smooth chords: Major 7ths, minor 7ths, minor 9ths, and diminished 7ths. You know, LCK-type chords.

So what do you think, Justin?

LCK

[Oswlek]

Originally Posted by LCK

So what do you think, Justin?

LCK

I've listened to the second one well over a dozen times trying to pinpoint what is rubbing me the wrong way. I don't think the chords are problematic, I think it is mostly a pacing and arrangement issues.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Len, but movement one is similar BPM as movement two, right? The guitar strumming comes off as being nearly identical and the drums - while different - follow roughly the same beat. Having the acoustic be the primary instrument compounds the issue, and makes those signature "Lenny licks" stand out in a "didn't I just hear that?" kind of way. Even the vocal phrasing is similar enough that I can sing lines from "Blind" over "Bottom" and they tend to fall in the right spaces.

I'm rambling... So, bpm, pacing, phrasing, strumming... they all contribute to the problem. That is why I've been dancing around trying to figure out ways to trick the listening into not noticing it (go with a nylon guitar. No, electric! No! Drop the guitar altogether!).

Ultimately, to me, the ending of "Blind" wants to lead into a more subdued number, especially if this is meant to be listened to as one long journey. Grab our attention the active, rocking piece and then delve into the more introspective stuff. Cat Stevens uses this technique in "Numbers", one of my favorite "must be listened to in its entirety" albums. Here are the first two tunes to give you the idea.

[LeonardScaper]

Yes....I actually made the conscious decision to go with the same BPM. Even imported the click track from the first tune.

[LCK]

Originally Posted by LeonardScaper

Yes....I actually made the conscious decision to go with the same BPM. Even imported the click track from the first tune.

The similarities go deeper than the number of beats per minute.

LCK