DC resistance ??????

[diavolo1]

i know this is a way to measure output of pickups, but does it relate to just how hot they are? example: the dimarzio x2n's resistance is 15.8, where the duncan JB is 16.4.

i always thought the x2n was a way hotter pup, almost active hot.... am i way off? long story short, i'm looking for a passive that sounds like a JB, but fuller in the mids, and a little more output..

i've already replaced one of my blackouts in my other charvel, and i'm liking the tone compared to the blackout with my 5150, but i have to turn up the lead gain a step further than the blackout, and it increases my noise level; and the blackout is fuller in the mids...

pups i'm looking at: dimarzio tone zone, suhr aldrich, duncan alternative8, bg hellabucker, bareknuckle warpig........ thanks for suggestions

[metalhobo]

 

i know this is a way to measure output of pickups, but does it relate to just how hot they are? example: the dimarzio x2n's resistance is 15.8, where the duncan JB is 16.4. i always thought the x2n was a way hotter pup, almost active hot.... am i way off? long story short, i'm looking for a passive that sounds like a JB, but fuller in the mids, and a little more output.. i've already replaced one of my blackouts in my other charvel, and i'm liking the tone compared to the blackout with my 5150, but i have to turn up the lead gain a step further than the blackout, and it increases my noise level; and the blackout is fuller in the mids... pups i'm looking at: dimarzio tone zone, suhr aldrich, duncan alternative8, bg hellabucker, bareknuckle warpig........ thanks for suggestions

 

 

DC Resistance is only one factor that determines a pickup's output and tone. One also has to factor in things like magnet strength, etc. Ultimately the construction of a pickups (wire gauge, number of windings, pole-piece construction and the like) have a bigger difference than the DC resistance alone.

 

 

And from everything I've heard, the X2N is actually hotter than most actives.

[kayman121]

resistance and voltage are directly proportional, so more DC res means more VDC (output), but in the context of a guitar pickup there are many other factors to be considered in overall output (magnet type, strength of magnetic field, pickup height, bobbin size..etc)

 

Usually it can be a decent indicator of the pickups overall output, but just bare in mind that it's not the end-all spec for making such a determination.

[diavolo1]

so..... the jb and the alternative8 are not hotter than the x2n? right? what do you guys think would be a hotter more modern version of the jb?

[Aibric]

More mids than a JB? The JB is like...all mids.

[Cougar Hunter]

the X2N is WAY hotter than the JB.

 

DC resistance only gives an indication of output in an "apples to apples" comparison. two Gibson PAFs for example.

 

If Dimarzio or Duncan says, "OMGZ it's REALLY hot.", they're probably giving you a better indication than the DC resistance could ever indicate.

[Aibric]

 

the X2N is WAY hotter than the JB. DC resistance only gives an indication of output in an "apples to apples" comparison. two Gibson PAFs for example. If Dimarzio or Duncan says, "OMGZ it's REALLY hot.", they're probably giving you a better indication than the DC resistance could ever indicate.

 

 

This is why I'm glad DiMarzio has started assigning an output value to their pickups. I don't know how they figure it, if its completely arbitrary or what, but just comparing the pickups relative to one another based on that value gives a much clearer indication of how hot the pickup is. For instance, the X2N has an output rating of 510 (!!!) while the Super 3, which is a pretty damn hot pup and has a DC resistance of 25.00K, has an output rating of only 435. Then you have a pup like Andy Timmons', which has a a similar DC resistance to the JB but DiMarzio actually rates as having a medium output of 325.

 

I wish other pup makers would get on board.

[Cougar Hunter]

This is why I'm glad DiMarzio has started assigning an output value to their pickups. I don't know how they figure it, if its completely arbitrary or what, but just comparing the pickups relative to one another based on that value gives a much clearer indication of how hot the pickup is. For instance, the X2N has an output rating of 510 (!!!) while the Super 3, which is a pretty damn hot pup and has a DC resistance of 25.00K, has an output rating of only 435. Then you have a pup like Andy Timmons', which has a a similar DC resistance to the JB but DiMarzio actually rates as having a medium output of 325. I wish other pup makers would get on board.

 

Actually, it's a fairly well-controlled measurement. They used to describe it in the old catalogs under the comparison chart.

 

They have a plucking machine hitting the same note, on the same string, on the same guitar, with the same amount of pressure through some kind of meter or something.

[Aibric]

Actually, it's a fairly well-controlled measurement. They used to describe it in the old catalogs under the comparison chart. They have a plucking machine hitting the same note, on the same string, on the same guitar, with the same amount of pressure through some kind of meter or something.

 

Ah, cool! I knew there had to be something real to it given the type of numbers used. For a long while it seems they stopped using the output rating because I only recently noticed it on the pickup specs on the website, and I have looked at the damn thing a bajillion times over the years. (Or I am incredibly unobservant)

[TheRymanChu]

Willi Stich says it isn't an indicator.

 

This is the short answer:

Beyond giving you a general point of comparison regarding the pickup's output, DC resistance values don't really offer that much insight into how a pickup will perform. Output is determined in part by the number of wire windings turned around a magnet, which is the core of any pickup. More windings, along with a larger magnet, create higher output. Design details such as type and length of wire, as well as magnet strength, also help define pickup output. Smaller wire has more resistance, which takes away some of the tone's high end. Very strong magnets create more flux and thereby more output. This can be detrimental to the final sound because the magnets' pull on the strings can cause problems with intonation as well as damp the strings and reduce sustain. Other pickups have more turns of wire to increase the voltage generated by the string's movement. However, this also increases the pickup's output resistance/impedance, which can affect high frequencies. The combination of the number of windings and the magnet material is what gives the unique tone/output of a particular type of pickup.

 

This is the long one from Helmuth Lemme:

Different pickups also have different output voltages. High output models can make it easier to overdrive amplifiers to produce a dirty sound, while low output models tend to produce a more clean sound. The output voltage of most pickups varies between 100 mV and 1 V RMS. Many people measure only the resistance and think they know something about a pickup. But this is a fundamental error. By far the most important quantity is the inductance, measured in Henries. It depends on the number of turns, the magnetic material in the coil, the winding density and the overall geometry of the coil. The resistance and the capacitance don't have much influence.

 

The external load consists of resistance (the volume and tone potentiometer in the guitar, and any resistance to ground at the amplifier input) and capacitance (due to the capacitance between the hot lead and shield in the guitar cable). The cable capacitance is significant and must not be neglected.

 

The turns of wire in proximity to each other have an equivalent self-capacitance which, when added to any cable capacitance present, resonates with the inductance of the winding. This resonance can accentuate certain frequencies, giving the pickup a characteristic tonal quality. The more turns of wire in the winding, the higher the output voltage but the lower this resonance frequency. The external load usually consists of resistance (the volume and tone potentiometer in the guitar, and any resistance to ground at the amplifier input) and capacitance between the hot lead and shield in the guitar cable. The electric cable also has a capacitance which can be a significant portion of the overall system capacitance.

 

If you know the resonant frequency and height of the resonant peak, you know about 90 percent of a pickup's transfer characteristics; these two parameters are the key to the "secret" of a pickup's sound. Overtones in the range around the resonant frequency are amplified, overtones above the resonant frequency are progressively reduced, and the fundamental vibration and the overtones far below the resonant frequency are reproduced without alteration.

 

The resonant frequency of most available pickups in combination with normal guitar cables lies between 2,000 and 5,000 Hz. This is the range where the human ear has its highest sensitivity. A quick subjective correlation of frequency to sound is that at 2,000 Hz the sound is warm and mellow, at 3,000 Hz brilliant or present, at 4,000 Hz piercing, and at 5,000 Hz or more brittle and thin. The sound also depends on the height of the peak: a high peak produces a powerful, characteristic sound; a low peak produces a weaker sound, especially with solid body guitars that have no acoustic body resonance. The height of the peak of most available pickups ranges between 1 and 4 (0 to 12 dB), it is dependent on the magnetic material in the coil, on the external resistive load , and on the metal case (without casing it is higher).

 

The resonant frequency depends on both the inductance L (1 - 10 Henries) and the capacitance C. C is the sum of the winding capacitance of the coil ( 80 - 200 pF) and the cable capacitance ( 300 - 1,000 pF). Since different guitar cables have different amounts of capacitance, it is clear that using different guitar cables with an unbuffered pickup will change the resonant frequency and hence the overall sound.

 

The integral "heliocentric" view on pickups: Pickup, pots in the guitar, cable capacitance, and amp input impedance are an interactive system that must not be split up into its parts. If you analyze the properties of the parts separately you will never understand how the system works as a whole. The sound material a pickup receives from the strings is not flavoured by the pickup alone but by the complete system. This includes the guitar cable.

Another cable, another sound! A few pickup manufacturers know that fact but they conceal it. The majority seems to be totally ignorant.

 

Up to this point, we have not taken into account the influence of eddy currents in metal parts. Such currents appear wherever an alternating magnetic field flows through electrically conductive parts. These parts are mostly the cores of magnetic coils

[benjamin801]

 

what do you guys think would be a hotter more modern version of the jb?

 

 

The Duncan Distortion. It's the same as the JB, only with a ceramic magnet instead of Alnico 5. The change from A5 to ceramic is definitely a more "modern" sound: hotter output, tighter lows, faster attack, crisper highs.

 

I've logged a ton of time with both pickups, and I think the DD is exactly what you're looking for.