Members honeyiscool Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 With a good pop filter (I use metal mesh), you can get up really close and not worry about distorting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fenderbender66 Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Please!!!I'll show you messy...... that's more like it!are those huge PVC pipes your monitors are on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Great idea... there has to be some loophole in the rules as we have a community here. Posting this sort of stuff in another forum would be futile. I write anywhere... and record in my basement, but I don't really have a studio. Just an 'area'. I don't think it's really pic worthy. Seems like a valid songwriting issue to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Is there a danger to leaving everything set-up, including mics? Other than the obvious (like careless children). I'm talking about dust, humidity, etc...Depending on where you are, sure. Dust, of course. Also oxidation, sun damage or even heat damage (from direct sunlight). Like CM, I use a (zip-lock) plastic bag as a mic sock when I leave one of my mics out -- but since mostly I use elastic cord shock mounts, I don't like to leave them set up, as the elastic breaks down/stretches, etc. I usually leave a couple guitars out but they do collect dust and the strings do oxidize faster when they're out, I've found. But I'm quite close to the water. (I do wipe my strings down religiously after I play and even while I'm playing, even though I also tend to wash my hands before I play if they feel the slightest bit sticky. [i was a compulsive hand-washer when I was in middle school so it's kinda second nature. Frankly, if you had gone to the second of my two middle schools, you probably would be, too.]) Since my studio is now heavily virtualized, I decided to go whole hog and virtualize myself as well... Before virtualization, I used these 3 tape decks, among others... And the 'real' studio often looked like this... Part way to virtualization... BTW... I normally run the NS10's with their grille cloths on... but, you know... people obsess on those white cones. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 I think this really comes through in your sound... I wasn't sure if it was the mic or equipment you use, or mic placement. Very intimate. I sing very close to the mic, too, but I don't get anywhere near Stick's intimacy. He clearly has some skill in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LeonardScaper Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 that's more like it! are those huge PVC pipes your monitors are on? That would be correct. And we're talkin' state of the art PVC pipes here. Great thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LeonardScaper Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Part way to virtualization... I love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 I sing very close to the mic, too, but I don't get anywhere near Stick's intimacy. He clearly has some skill in that area. Maybe that's the Rode NTK at work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Intimacy of a vocal track is little to do with the quality of the mic but a lot to do with how you mix everything else to create space for your vocals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LeonardScaper Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Hmmmm......... Creating space for vocals is all well and good in the mix, but the space that you create when you are writing and tracking these songs is most crucial. Mic choice and technique.......... I love looking at the mic set ups that people use when writing and tracking. Great to put those images together with their signature sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Intimacy of a vocal track is little to do with the quality of the mic but a lot to do with how you mix everything else to create space for your vocals. Mixing is important, but some people have the voice for it. Stick is one of those few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 I don't think it's really that he has a special voice as much as he knows how to use it well. I'm not saying he's not a good singer; he is. But the point is that we all have distinctive voices and you have to accept your voice as it is when you mix around it. If you have a big, full male voice, you'll be competing with guitars in that frequency range, so you have to mix accordingly. There are so many male voices that don't have the traditional tenor range that have no problems sounding good in a commercial sounding mix, just listen to The Killers or Green Day. Over the past few years, my vocal tracks have gotten better and the quality of gear hasn't necessarily gotten better (I always had pretty good stuff), the stuff that's gotten better is my knowledge on how to use the gear, how to sing in a way that adds presence (less air, close my air ways a bit), but most importantly, I think I'm better at listening. Listening to other instruments and knowing when they will interfere with the vocals, and mixing them in a way that lets me use my limited vocal abilities to their fullest, that's the important thing. I am confident that I can make a very good sounding record with a $150 interface and a $50 microphone today (as long as I have excellent speakers). You can polish a turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Hmmm... I don't think I disagree with any of you. That said, I still want to buy a better mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 I don't think it's really that he has a special voice as much as he knows how to use it well. I'm not saying he's not a good singer; he is. But the point is that we all have distinctive voices and you have to accept your voice as it is when you mix around it. If you have a big, full male voice, you'll be competing with guitars in that frequency range, so you have to mix accordingly. There are so many male voices that don't have the traditional tenor range that have no problems sounding good in a commercial sounding mix, just listen to The Killers or Green Day.Over the past few years, my vocal tracks have gotten better and the quality of gear hasn't necessarily gotten better (I always had pretty good stuff), the stuff that's gotten better is my knowledge on how to use the gear, how to sing in a way that adds presence (less air, close my air ways a bit), but most importantly, I think I'm better at listening. Listening to other instruments and knowing when they will interfere with the vocals, and mixing them in a way that lets me use my limited vocal abilities to their fullest, that's the important thing. I am confident that I can make a very good sounding record with a $150 interface and a $50 microphone today (as long as I have excellent speakers).You can polish a turd. Again, you won't get an argument from me about this. But Stick definitely has a unique quality that enhances the intimate feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Hmmm... I don't think I disagree with any of you. That said, I still want to buy a better mic. What do you have? I don't think better mic means a more expensive mic. The mic that works best for me is an AE5400 (and its AT4050 sibling). While that's a pretty pricey mic at $379 (I got it for $299, woo!), I think I can get 85-90% of the way there with my Apex 180, which is $49. You can often find mics that are great for you at a low price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Well, he certainly sounds like he's barely even trying yet gets great results. There's such a thing as natural talent, but at the same time, who knows how much time he's spent into perfecting his art? If we practice the right way and the right amount, we can all sound effortless.What do you have?I don't think better mic means a more expensive mic. The mic that works best for me is an AE5400 (and its AT4050 sibling). While that's a pretty pricey mic at $379 (I got it for $299, woo!), I think I can get 85-90% of the way there with my Apex 180, which is $49. You can often find mics that are great for you at a low price. I only have a Shure 57. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 I only have a Shure 57. I use a Rhode NT1A. It is a solid mic, though I need to clip the mids and lows and, like any condensor, I can only record when everyone else is asleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LeonardScaper Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 Ah, we digress. It's all about the gear, right? Well, he certainly sounds like he's barely even trying yet gets great results. .....or maybe not. These photos of writing/recording spaces drive home one very important point. Make your gear choices and then move on to making music. That photo of my space was taken a couple of months ago......It looks exactly like that right now. When the Muse speaks I just have to lean over and hit the red button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 I only have a Shure 57. What you need to do, IMO, is try one of each of the common types used for male voices: large diaphragm condenser, small diaphragm condenser, large broadcast style dynamic microphone, handheld vocal microphone, and ribbon microphone. I've listed them in order of what I think is most suitable for most people. Personally, I think small diaphragm condensers are the easiest mics to get sounding good for a male voice. They usually have very crisp sound, excellent presence, and the lack of low end warmth is actually a good thing because it helps you cut through the mix. Also they're not very room dependent when it comes to voices. There are two cheap SDCs that I think are worth considering. The Apex 185 stereo pair, and the Audio-Technica Pro 37. The Pro 37 is a great mic even at its budget price, a favorite of world-class engineers like Steve Albini (Pixies, Joanna Newsome, PJ Harvey, etc.). The Apex 185, meanwhile, is a work horse. It comes with shock mounts, omni/cardiod capsules, and a case for a stupidly low price, and is an excellent modding platform if you ever want to go that route. It also sounds quite good, if a bit sibilant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 13, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 13, 2011 What you need to do, IMO, is try one of each of the common types used for male voices: large diaphragm condenser, small diaphragm condenser, large broadcast style dynamic microphone, handheld vocal microphone, and ribbon microphone. I've listed them in order of what I think is most suitable for most people.Personally, I think small diaphragm condensers are the easiest mics to get sounding good for a male voice. They usually have very crisp sound, excellent presence, and the lack of low end warmth is actually a good thing because it helps you cut through the mix. Also they're not very room dependent when it comes to voices.There are two cheap SDCs that I think are worth considering. The Apex 185 stereo pair, and the Audio-Technica Pro 37. The Pro 37 is a great mic even at its budget price, a favorite of world-class engineers like Steve Albini (Pixies, Joanna Newsome, PJ Harvey, etc.). The Apex 185, meanwhile, is a work horse. It comes with shock mounts, omni/cardiod capsules, and a case for a stupidly low price, and is an excellent modding platform if you ever want to go that route. It also sounds quite good, if a bit sibilant. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 No. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dingoist Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 I only have a Shure 57. You can do plenty with a sm57, including using it has a hammer. If it helps you write, then it's perfect. I mean, this isn't the recording forum, or anything Myself, I'm in my den with most of my stuff stored. A computer in the corner, am 88 weighted keyboard against the far wall (which I move on to an x-stand next to my computer whenever I want to do something that I can't with a small 25 key controller), a mic stand which I pull out, I usually leave a condenser on it (an EV Cardinal I got a good deal on, good for some things, terrible with others, wouldn't rate it as the best but a good bang for the buck) with a cover over it to prevent dust. The wires are usually all packed away in a tote under my desk. Which makes doing much of anything difficult to just "sit down and record", and it's pretty much ticking me off and pretty much provides another excuse to just log in and waste more time here instead of working on a song Unfortunately it's also a fairly high traffic room out to the patio, and it is also the guest room. My goal over the next year is to create a room in the basement to work out of but that requires a lot of work to get there (in a 100 year old house, it's not a very usable basement). Either that or extend the garage with a small insulated room off the back. After commute, work, commute, kids, dinner, kids to bed, etc. I'm pretty tired and while my instruments are within easy reach, so I do write and compose, I don't record as much as I'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 I use a Rhode NT1A. It is a solid mic, though I need to clip the mids and lows and, like any condensor, I can only record when everyone else is asleep. I have an NT1 that's what I normally use (the original Oz-made version that listed for $450US when it came out -- and cost me almost that much, there was so much buzz on it). I like it a lot for my voice and guitar. But I would not want to pound nails with it. (For that matter, I probably wouldn't want to use either of my '57s as hammers, either, though I saw the guy in the Shure booth at AES 1984 do it. ) My other favorite mic (in my locker) is an early 90s CAD Equitek II, big-diaphragm condenser multi-pattern. It's about the size of one of those big Foster's Lager cans and it's very neutral to my ear. Whenever I have something that's too edgy or fizzy with the NT1 (which has a smooth but substantial treble rise and a bottom rolloff), I use the Equitek, which is pretty flat to my thinking. (And, along with it's multi-pattern functionality, it has both an attenuation pad and a roll off switch.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm eyeing up the RODE NTK right now... almost ready to pull the trigger. Someone talk me out of it! Or into it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm eyeing up the RODE NTK right now... almost ready to pull the trigger. Someone talk me out of it! Or into it!I haven't kept up but back when those were newer, I was thinking they looked mighty nice. I've wondered how the K2 is -- a multi-pattern tube mic. Looks a little different than the NTK. But you know how it goes... sometimes you (the manufacturer) have a mic that turns into a classic and then you decide to extend the franchise with a more heavily featured model and you end up losing what folks liked in the first place. Still, I don't think I've heard bad stuff about them. But, as I note below, I seldom trust the buzz I hear on the internet -- because I know how ignorant and confused most of the people posting about this stuff are. (Seriously. I'm not just being snarky. OK. Maybe just a little snarky. But, really, there are a lot of dolts out there shooting off their mouths like they know what's what. Some of them have big, fancy studios, too, to hear them talk. But once someone says something stupid or demonstrates they can't think straight, I assume that even if they can make a good sounding record, they're not someone I'm going to trust the techinical opinion of.) One of the reasons I make a point of not giving advice about specific gear in recording forums is because A) there is now so much of it I haven't tried and B) way too many people on the 'net spout stuff about products they either haven't used (much or at all) or simply don't have the expertise/experience/perspective to trust. I wouldn't trust my opinion -- why should I trust theirs? (There are exceptions, of course. There are a handful of folks posting at HC or Gearslutz who I do think know their stuff. No doubt there are many more, but it takes a while before I start thinking that someone is trustworthy. Just saying things I agree with doesn't buy any credibility with me. What I like are the guys who show me I'm wrong. That's when I start thinking they have something to offer. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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