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A great melody first, then lyrics,(only) THEN 'vocals'


Mark Blackburn

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First a thank-you to my new favorite songwriter in NYC -- LCK. Okay, so you're the only current songwriter I know in The Apple; but the drinks are on me, Lee, if I ever get back there. How I envy you, having your pick each night of 'cabaret' performances by the likes of . . . those just mentioned! Now, why did I come here just now. Oh yes . . .

If you think about it, the one thing all of us 'ordinary souls' -- including (even especially) dollar billionaires, never have enough of is . . . TIME. Who among us hasn

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He's knocking on a door, but not for me.
He'll plan a two by four, but not for me.
I know that love's a game;
I'm puzzled, just the same,
was I the moth or flame?
I'm all at sea.
It all began so well, but what an end!
This is the time a feller needs a friend,
when ev'ry happy plot ends with the marriage knot,
and there's no knot for me.

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Quote Originally Posted by Mark Blackburn View Post
First a thank-you to my new favorite songwriter in NYC -- LCK. Okay, so you're the only current songwriter I know in The Apple; but the drinks are on me, Lee, if I ever get back there.

...

The melody by Leonard Bernstein is (I think) the best ballad
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Hey, Mark,

Have you ever written about this little gem?

"Cloudy Morning"

Cloudy morning, dark as night,
tops of buildings, out of sight.
A hint of spring was nowhere to be seen.
The trees in Central Park were anything but green.

And then that cloudy morning slowly cleared,
tops of buildings re-appeared.
And suddenly I saw you come my way
and I knew that this would be a lovely day.

(Joseph McCarthy, Jr./Marian Fisher)

My first encounter with it was on a Carmen McRae album, long out of print, called Second to None.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m2dZksSRSg

Peggy Lee's version is quite good. You can even hear the scratches on the LP it was taken from.

Tony Bennett recorded it too. I wish I could find that Carmen McRae album!

LCK

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Saturday is my favorite day to listen to satellite radio. In the middle of the night, I'll sometimes reach over to the nightstand and turn on my Sirius radio -- then flip it face down (the blue screen is so bright it annoys my wife). This morning, I awoke thinking about 'Lerner & Loewe'

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Quote Originally Posted by Mark Blackburn View Post
Concerning our personal quirks and requirements to write at our best. Loewe's wife Tina told a New York Post reporter a few weeks after Brigadoon opened on Broadway, that her husband prefers to work in the nude.
There's probably something to that. Paul McCartney wrote "Yesterday" right after getting out of bed, so he was either in his pajamas or wearing his skivvies (or maybe he was sleeping in the nude).

There's a similar story behind Townes Van Zandt's song, "If I Needed You." He was staying with some friends, they were all sick with the flu. The song came to him in a dream, he woke up, wrote it all down, the words and the guitar parts, then went back to sleep. In the morning he found what he had written, brought his guitar to the breakfast table and played it before getting dressed.



I'd say that Frederick Lowe was ahead of his time, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Mozart wrote in the nude all the time, or in his bathrobe at least.

LCK
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You need the concept first. What are you writing about? The rest must grow out of that concept.
Melody comes as I sing the words over the chords. Rhythm comes as I strum while I sing.
If you start with the melody you end up with some lame bunch of cliches. Fit good words to good chords for melodic innovation.
The key is that those words and the chords have the right emotional tone, that they gel to deliver the concept with truth.

Some great songwriter, sorry I've forgotten who, was asked how they keep track of new song ideas on the road. Did they write down the words and chords or use a recorder? They said they just needed the concept. The song wrote itself. I think that's true, but what would I know?

Judge for yourself. A few songs here:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-PA...app_2405167945
Check out Tumbling Down. I 'stole' the concept from Wind And Rain (trad).
'The Trap' is a short chapter in my singer's life. It was interesting watching her sing it to the 2 guys involved. They loved it!

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First, a thank-you to LCK and 'geektar' for the interesting links -- and your personal observations, which I enjoyed! I came here to share an appreciation for a song many of you may never hear (unless, like me, you listen to channel 75 satellite radio). The song is titled, Where Do You Start?

I'm taking time off from work this week, getting ready to fly to Montreal tomorrow (where my son will graduate as a new Canadian Customs Officer (

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I met the Bergman's once, at a New Year's Eve party at Robert Redford's cabin in Utah. I lived in Salt Lake City at the time, and one of my best friends was the office manager for the Sundance ski resort. This was around the time that On Golden Pond was in theaters, and Jane Fonda, and the film's director Mark Rydell were there, but I had no interest in talking to them or Redford, just Marilyn and Alan Bergman.

I don't know whether the Bergman's had written something for Golden Pond, or if they were working on something else for Redford or Rydell, or if they were just there on a ski vacation, but I had a chance to speak to Marilyn at some length, mainly about my favorite songwriting topic, the wonderfully artful, yet seemingly "artless" lyrics of Johnny Mercer.

Ms. Bergman was very sweet and easy to talk to, and told me, glowingly, that Mercer had taken her and Alan under his wing when they were first starting out (as Yip Harburg had done to Mercer himself), and had nothing but praise for the old lyric master.

I complimented her (and Alan) in turn, saying something to the effect that of all modern lyricists, I thought they came closest to Mercer's talent and sensibilities (which I thought, and still think is true).

LCK

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What a delightful anecdote, Lee Charles Kelly! A few months ago, I sent the Bergmans a link to this thread, along with a "no need to reply to this fluff" that they may have taken seriously [!] But maybe they do drop by here from time to time. I know they'll love to read those words of yours.

If I may I'd like to report another delightful 'synchronicity' (as Carl Jung used to call 'amazing coincidence'):

Coincidentally (or maybe not) one of those CDs I brought up from the basement was Ella's HELLO LOVE album, specifically to hear track 7

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Belated thanks, Lee Charles Kelley for that embedded video! Watching that again, I wonder if Lerner & Loewe agreed -- that Ella's was the finest reading of their best ballad!

Which reminded me: my all-time favorite Alan Jay Lerner ballad is one he wrote with Burton (Finian's Rainbow) Lane -- TOO LATE NOW. And I learned just a moment ago that poignant ballad will be heard (again) on Broadway in just a few month's time!

I came here actually intending to share an appreciation for COME BACK TO ME -- one of the songs Harry Connick Jr. will sing sometime this Fall in a Broadway revival of

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Quote Originally Posted by Lee Knight View Post
I love the simple device of opening with the words "Too late now..." and closing with the exact same words in a different sentence, "It's too late now".
Yeah, Lerner was great. One of my favorite lines of his:

I have often walked down this street before
but the pavement always stayed beneath my feet before.


What a great way of describing the feeling of being in love.

LCK
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So Nat Cole wrote the beautiful melody! Thanks OSWLEK for that -- and for (properly) embedding that video, which I'd not seen . . . and, thanks to which, I'm able to correct the lyric above, as Natalie sings it: "never judge a heart, by a kiss"

And yes. what a guitar solo! (played on a 70s model OVATION acoustic-electric which to this guitarist's ears, never sounded better!) YouTube also has a 'slide show' presentation of Natalie's studio version of this song co-written by her Dad, better engineered with full orchestra but not as much fun as a "live" performance!

Friends who've seen Natalie 'in concert' at the Hollywood Bowl tell me she is a fabulous performer who has her audiences 'in the palm of her hand.' Sort of like . . . her Daddy always did!

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