Members GCDEF Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 I have a 0 Paypal balance. If a buyer files a dispute, can they go get the money from my bank account. They say all they can do is give me a negative Paypal balance, but I've heard otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members metalone Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 No, But they won't let you use paypal again until it is resolved, they will cancel your account Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members yourguitarhero Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 Cancel the direct debit at the bank. Fuck paypal as they will fuck you without hesitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LordOVchaoS Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 Just leaves a negative paypal balance. At that point you can either give paypal the finger and leave them with said balance, or pay it up to current and continue using your account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bitter Dawn Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 Don't rip people off and ya won't have any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members yourguitarhero Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 It's when someone rips you off that there is a problem. Paypal always finds on the side of the buyer. Buyer says "Hey yo, I bought this shit and it never showed up" You say - "well it was delivered to that address and the buyer signed for it", Paypal say "hey buyer, here's your money back. Seller - take it up with the postage people or the cops". The postage people say "Signed for, not our problem". Cops say "lol, we don't give a shit, go to court". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Padoobies Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 I actually work for PayPal here in Omaha Ne and I do dispute resolutions, so I decide cases all day. Here are how things break down for ease, I'll just cover the eBay rules (slightly different rules apply if you buy elsewhere): There are two types of cases: "Not as Described" and "Non-Receipt" For a non receipt case it is simple, tracking info and signature confirmation is king. If the buyer says they never got an item, the only thing we have to go on is tracking information. If the tracking information shows delivered (for an item under $250), or shows that the item was delivered AND SIGNED FOR (for an item over $250) then the seller will win. Period. If there is no proof of delivery, or no signature confirmation, there is no proof that the buyer ever got the item so they will win and get their money back. The most common complaints from sellers in these cases is that the buyer did not want or pay for tracking information so they did not ship it with tracking info. The tracking info is to protect the seller, not the buyer. I sell on-line all the time and I never give the buyer the option for tracking it is mandatory, and I pass the extra couple of dollar cost on to them. If they don't like it, they are free to buy from someone else, but I will not ship without tracking. The other type of case is "Not as Described" where the buyer and seller are at odds about the condition of an item in relationship to the auction description. These are always a he said - she said type of argument, and since PayPal was not able to see the condition of the item exactly when it arrived (the buyer and sellers always offer to provide photos, but it makes no difference, as we can't prove exactly when the photos were taken or what happened between when the photos were taken and now). So in this type of case where it's one person's word against the other the best that we can do is just try to put the parties back to where they were before the transaction happened. They seller will get their item back, and the buyer will get their money back. The same rules about tracking apply when the buyer returns an item as with a non-receipt claim; the buyer will not get a refund until the tracking shows that the item has been delivered back to the seller. In regards to money: PayPal seizes the money from the account of the seller when a claim is filed, and held until the outcome of the case is decided and we know whether to transfer the money back to the seller, or to the buyer. If there is an insufficient amount in the seller's account the balance will go negative. If the seller wins, the money will be put back and the negative balance will be resolved. If the seller loses, their account will be frozen until the balance is restored. If the balance is never restored, the account will be closed, and you will be sent to collections, and it will affect your credit. Also FYI, PayPal cannot take money form your bank account without you initiating the transaction. So they can't just go and take your money, but what they CAN do is if the amount you are negative is small, they will not freeze your account, and the next time you make another PayPal transaction they will add the negative amount to the transaction you just authorized and take the money then. That is the basics of the decision making. Is it perfect for everyone, no. Are there things about it I would change if I could? You bet. But none-the-less there it is, and I think it's always better to be informed and know the rules before you buy or sell. By the way, this is all spelled out in detail in the user agreement that you have to click "I Accept" to before you can even open a PayPal account. It's just that no-one takes the time to read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CliffC8488 Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 Nice steaming pile of PayPal BS right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ovid9 Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 By the way, this is all spelled out in detail in the user agreement that you have to click "I Accept" to before you can even open a PayPal account. It's just that no-one takes the time to read it. Its also because even if the average person took the time to read it they probably couldn't make heads nor tails out of WTF Paypal's or 99% of EULAs out there say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gt_jumper Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 Nice steaming pile of PayPal BS right there. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TomCTC Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 Fuck PayPal. My girlfriends account was in a negative balance after dealing with some stuff from eBay, and she never really checked it. We got a letter from an agency after a few months from Paypal taking her to collections regarding it. Fucking crooks. And the fact that it takes 3-5 days for money to go in/out of your account? Bullshit. It's twenty fucking ten. Get with the fucking times, guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Disco Cat Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 By the way, this is all spelled out in detail in the user agreement that you have to click "I Accept" to before you can even open a PayPal account. It's just that no-one takes the time to read it. You sure that's it? You don't think maybe it's that people get pissed off when Paypal tries to steal money from them when a deadbeat buyer lies about having not received an item or gives an otherwise bs story? I dealt with Paypal's thuggery when I sold something to someone through Paypal, and then a full year later, the buyer initiated a chargeback - despite having received the item and told me they were happy with it. I send Paypal chat transcripts and email from the buyer proving that they received it and were satisfied with it, but Paypal didn't give one little shit. They told me it's up to me to sort that out with the buyer, and locked my account and sold my contact info to a collection agency, which gave up after a week of assholish behaviour. Fuck Paypal for the scumbag fucks they are. I ended up getting ahold of the buyer's girlfriend (who was now an ex-gf), and she told me that the guy ran into major problems with heroin and screwed a whole lot of people over, and that's why she's no longer with him. Again, fuck Paypal, because they deserve to be fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeadNight Warrior Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 Nice steaming pile of PayPal BS right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wrathchild1 Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 Don't rip people off and ya won't have any problems. typical dumb ass E-bayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Padoobies Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 Wow, I honestly was not trying to take sides one way or the other. I was just trying to let eveyone know how PayPal makes their decisions (and where their rules are: User Agreement). I was just hoping to give some info so people could avoid issues. If you'd rather avoid issues by not using PayPal; that's totally cool too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeadNight Warrior Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 Wow, I honestly was not trying to take sides one way or the other. I was just trying to let eveyone know how PayPal makes their decisions (and where their rules are: User Agreement). I was just hoping to give some info so people could avoid issues. If you'd rather avoid issues by not using PayPal; that's totally cool too. Well it's all good to say this is how PP works... but then look at DiscoCat's situation above. Does that sound like standard operating procedure to you? It sounds like arse-fuckery to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Padoobies Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 I admit that situation sucks. PayPal only lets you dispute anything through them for upto 45 days after the purchase date. What happens with a charge back is that the credit card company that the buyer funded the transaction with granted buyer a charge back, and took the money back from PayPal, so PayPal took it form the seller. If the buyer's credit card had not granted the chargeback, that would have never happened. I completely agree that is a shitty situation, and like I said, I don't agree with all their poilicies, I was just trying to be informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 I admit that situation sucks. PayPal only lets you dispute anything through them for upto 45 days after the purchase date. What happens with a charge back is that the credit card company that the buyer funded the transaction with granted buyer a charge back, and took the money back from PayPal, so PayPal took it form the seller. If the buyer's credit card had not granted the chargeback, that would have never happened. I completely agree that is a shitty situation, and like I said, I don't agree with all their poilicies, I was just trying to be informative. If Paypal only allows disputes for 45 days and then cuts you off then after 45 days if Paypal gets a chargeback they need to take it up with the credit card company. After 45 days you guys are out remember? Can't have it both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members El-Lardo Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 They can literally suck you dry like a vampire... Run away to Cuba, the internet doesn't go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NITROHOLIC Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 fuck fee-bay and pay pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Valtiel Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 You sure that's it? You don't think maybe it's that people get pissed off when Paypal tries to steal money from them when a deadbeat buyer lies about having not received an item or gives an otherwise bs story? I dealt with Paypal's thuggery when I sold something to someone through Paypal, and then a full year later, the buyer initiated a chargeback - despite having received the item and told me they were happy with it. I send Paypal chat transcripts and email from the buyer proving that they received it and were satisfied with it, but Paypal didn't give one little shit. They told me it's up to me to sort that out with the buyer, and locked my account and sold my contact info to a collection agency, which gave up after a week of assholish behaviour. Fuck Paypal for the scumbag fucks they are. I ended up getting ahold of the buyer's girlfriend (who was now an ex-gf), and she told me that the guy ran into major problems with heroin and screwed a whole lot of people over, and that's why she's no longer with him. Again, fuck Paypal, because they deserve to be fucked. So basically what you're saying here is Paypal supports heroin usage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa4x12er2 Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 So basically what you're saying here is Paypal supports heroin usage? That's what I took from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeadNight Warrior Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 If Paypal only allows disputes for 45 days and then cuts you off then after 45 days if Paypal gets a chargeback they need to take it up with the credit card company. After 45 days you guys are out remember? Can't have it both ways. Exactly. You can't set a 45 day period within which disputes can be raised, but then fuck the seller outside of that period anyway. Plus, it wasn't just that they charged him, but also that even after providing the info that showed it had been delivered and that the buyer had received it and whatnot, they still didn't give a shit and just sent the collectors after him. Mind you, as Padoobies said, he just works for 'em. He doesn't necessarily agree with all their policies or ways of doing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katillac Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 I admit that situation sucks. PayPal only lets you dispute anything through them for upto 45 days after the purchase date. What happens with a charge back is that the credit card company that the buyer funded the transaction with granted buyer a charge back, and took the money back from PayPal, so PayPal took it form the seller. If the buyer's credit card had not granted the chargeback, that would have never happened. I completely agree that is a shitty situation, and like I said, I don't agree with all their poilicies, I was just trying to be informative. The transaction was made through PayPal. The chargeback was granted. Thus, the payment was granted back to the credit card company from PayPal. Instead of fighting the credit card company as they should have, PayPal then recouped that loss by charging the original seller because it's easier to bully the seller than fight a huge conglomerate. In this case, the seller ended up in collections and thus their credit damaged BY PayPal due to a situation in which PayPal should have taken the loss to begin with. Had the seller been informed of their rights, they should have challenged the debt and taken PayPal et al to court over it. Most people won't. I would have. My time costs less than a team of lawyers. Said team of lawyers, in preparation for such things must analyse the cost efficiency of the situation. If it is more cost efficient to settle, they will. I guarantee you, in this case, I would have won without a fight, as would have the seller had they chosen to do so. The thing is, most people won't, knowing what they possibly may face, and the legal team at PayPal knows this and counts on it. So do I, and I count on it, knowing that their time is worth way more. Doing my part to fuck the system back, kat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted October 21, 2010 Members Share Posted October 21, 2010 My beef with them is this "Up to 21 days hold" bullshit. Seriously?? I've been using PP pretty much since inception. Had ONE dispute in where the buyer didn't want the item and called it "Damaged" but had no proof so I called BS and he filed a dispute which got worked out. My last 3 or 4 eBay sales have all been held days upon days even when the item was marked as "Delivered" into the system, which is horseshit anyway to do that in the first place. I've been looking for alternatives. Anyone know of any? Hell if I don't even have a PP account it could def put a hold on gear purchases I maybe don't need since you can't pay cash/check/MO with a credit card very easily... But yeah pretty much fuck those guys in their assholes, and repeat with their face. Starting with the eyesockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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