Members oldschoolshred Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 Hi all, just joined. I just got a Laney Cub head, a 15W AB amp with two EL84s in the power section and three ECC83s in the preamp. It's been a couple years since I spent time with a tube amp and I need some reminding of what I can do to squeeze more juice out of it. To my ear this is a great classic rock amp but I'm hoping to get a more classic metal tone. Is this possible with EL84s? Is there a dramatic difference between these and EL34s and if so can I change that? I'm going for a Marshall JCM800 tone. Is that even possible? Finally, I've been fooling around with balance between power and preamp overdrive. The preamp I dime when playing classic metal and as I raise the vol it gets slightly more saturated but not that much. And after 7 on vol. it gets too saturated. Is this the normal effect of power tube distortion or can I get more out of this. the amp is loaded with Ruby Tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 Hey, welcome to hell! I've never used the Laney amp but I do use an AC30 which has 4 EL84s. Typically EL84 amps don't have a particularly tight or full sounding bottom end, which is quite an important part of a lot of heavy/metal tones. You probably won't be able to get thick palm mutes or articulate and clear distortion with two EL84s at any great volume, and I think that's the key. For most metal sounds the tone tends to be a well voiced preamp distortion into a relatively clean power section which has the ooomph to remain clear and punchy even when the preamp is roaring and screaming. That ties into what you've noticed, where if you turn up the master volume too far the tone gets too saturated and probably flubs out if you're trying to get a decent amount of bass through it. That said, you could probably get a decent heavy sounding pedal and just keep the amp volume sensible - but then it's probably not gonna have the headroom you need if you want to gig/ have band practices. If you want classic metal amp tones, you might need a different amp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldschoolshred Posted July 13, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 Hi dude. And "hell ain't a bad place to be" somebody once said. I agree with you that EL84s aren't particularly tight. But the doubt I have is about the actual influence of an EL84 vs an EL34, since I'm not noticing the impact of the power tube saturating, since I'm relying almost entirely on the preamp's overdrive anyway. I do keep the vol sensible and dime the preamp, since it's loud enough to get over a drummer that way. I don't need headroom cause I a/b this with a Fender for cleans. I guess I could buy another head just for metal, but this baby is just so sweet for classic rock. I don't want to sacrifice that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 But the doubt I have is about the actual influence of an EL84 vs an EL34, since I'm not noticing the impact of the power tube saturating, since I'm relying almost entirely on the preamp's overdrive anyway. I get what you're saying. If you just take the tubes in isolation, it probably doesn't make that much difference whether they're EL84s or EL34s - if they're not distorting they'll both do a fine job of just amplifying the sound coming out of the preamp. The difference is that two EL84s are going to start colouring the tone quite early on on the master volume's sweep - you'll be able to hear where clearly because at some point turning the knob just adds more saturation instead of volume. But even with the volume below that point, the amount of headroom available for the attack of the notes and the bassier stuff is going to be lacking. You might not notice the effect of sustained chords but it will impact how aggressive and big the amp feels. There's other things to consider too - a 15 watt amp with a small output transformer will never have the grunt and clarity of say a 50 watter with a big transformer, because that saturates and distorts too. You can play around with the volume/ tone controls, but unless you seriously mod the amp, I don't think you'll be able to get metal tones out of it without running into the problems that I think made you post this thread, because the whole point of small amps is that they quickly get into power amp compression/ distortion, which will always smooth out whatever you're putting into it, and as I understand it that's pretty much the opposite of most metal tones where you need clarity, attack and balls. I hear you on the classic rock thing - I bet it sounds wicked cranked up until it's screaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldschoolshred Posted July 13, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 I hear you on the classic rock thing - I bet it sounds wicked cranked up until it's screaming. Oh yes it does. And it pretty much boils down to that. I play a pretty wide variety of rock music and what made me love this amp was that sound and also how it adapts to my weekend warrior lifestyle of playing in an amateur band and gigs at a local pup. I actually almost went for a Peavey Windsor, which I understand is a JCM800 clone but it was just too powerful. I still might get one but for the meantime I went for a small amp and from what I've seen they just don't make em with EL34s apparently one of those produces about 25W power on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doomsdaymachine Posted July 14, 2011 Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 I had a Peavey Classic 30, Classic 50 head, and (2) Classic 50 2x12 combos, all EL84-based. That said, I got metal tones all day long. The key, was good tubes, (JJ EL84's worked best in the power amp, with a mix of other good 12AX7's), a good overdrive pedal, and an EQ in a GOOD loop. I love Laney's but I HATE their FX loops - they suck tone dramatically. You need an aggressive OD pedal, (I prefer my trusty Wylde OD). Tubescreamers are a bit smooth, and lack edge, unless you're boosting a high-gainer, then they tighten well. Needless to say, it can be done. Again, I had 80's thrash, doom, and drop-tuned metal tones all day long with the Peavey Classics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldschoolshred Posted July 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 You need an aggressive OD pedal Interesting you said that cause yesterday I spent about two hours trying to get a Boss OS-2 to work and in the end I practically tossed it out the window cause the damn thing just ruins the amp's natural sweet tone. I tried it in the loop, in front of the amp, with power distortion only, with preamp distortion, with a mix of both and the pedal, with no distortion on the amp and the pedal. I just didn't find the sweet spot. Any tips on how to make one of these damn dirt pedals work with an amp like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.