Dreadnought VS. 000?

[USian Pie]

 

Originally posted by ShesGotVerve I've heard lots of great things about the Seagull for the price, but no, I do NOT want a wide neck. I was looking at the S6 Grand and Folk, but not if they have wide necks. It's uncomfortable enough to change chords now, and even with long fingers I don't want to have to deal with wrapping around a wide neck.

 

 

The S6 Grand has a 1.72" nut -- between 1 11/16" and 1 3/4". It's a small-bodied parlor-size guitar.

 

Seagull/Art & Lutherie/Simon & Patrick are all part of Godin Guitars:

 

http://www.godinguitars.com

 

I've found many dealers carrying Seagull here in North Texas but, for some reason, Art & Lutherie and Simon & Patrick are less common.

[Cams]

Originally posted by ShesGotVerve For my money I'm probably not going to get a solid back, but what's the popular opinion about a solid top vs. laminated? I know a laminated won't age, but for my purposes does it really matter? Is the sound on the less expensive laminated top really bad? I mean so bad that I can't stand the sound it's making? Even with no ear for tone.......

 

My first guitar was an Aria AW200 dreadnaught (although the label said jumbo )with a laminates throughout and it did me well for 12 years. Of course knowing what I know now, I'm sure I would have gone for something with a solid top but it might not have survived what the Aria went through quite so well. Anyway, my point is that the tone never really bothered me but I did find my enthusiasm wavering quite frequently. Perhaps that was because the tone didn't quite grab me, and perhaps not.

 

Anyway, I suggest you look at the A&L and S&P guitars WITH solid tops and it will make a difference and could mean the difference between giving up and not.

[SurrealMcCoy]

You might want to try a Taylor Big Baby. You might be able to find a used one for @ $200.

 

I personally think that you will probably be happiest with a 000 or mini jumbo..............and unfortunately...........the more balanced/bigger sounding...........is going to = $$$$

 

Alan

[desaljs]

With the price point you are at, the Seagull might fit the bill. There is also another brand made by the same outfit in Canada, called Art & Luthier (sp?). These are essentially the same instruments, but the A & L brand does not have a solid wood top. These are nicely made guitars for the money and the sound is good to my humble ears................................

[ShesGotVerve]

Thanks so much for all the great suggestions! Such a wide range of choices but they thin down quickly when you only want to spend a couple hundred.

 

But I found one I really liked and I bought it! I've been researching this for some time before I joined this forum so it wasn't an impulse purchase and I stayed right in my budget.

 

I tried out several and the one I liked the most was the Yamaha FG403S. It's a solid top (which I did notice a big difference and did want), and suprisingly it is a dread as well, but it felt very comfy for some reason. I got a really nice young sales guy who was a good player and he played it for me so I could hear it from the listener's perspective. Wow! What great sustain for a $200 guitar! I was really impressed with it's sound. The neck is thin which I liked and I was just really impressed with it all-around....again for the price. I deliberately did not have him take down a 2K Martin or Taylor for fear THEN I would tell the difference in sound quality, but I was super-impressed with it's sustain.

 

Anyone else start out with this Yamaha or play one now? I'd love to know how you like it (unless, of course, you hate(d) it, in which case that wouldn't be too helpful since I just bought it! )

 

I also bought a gigbag and a chromatic tuner. I'm bringing it back tomorrow for the set-up which is included with the sale. My brother recommended I have the action lowered (not to the point of buzzing, but lowered) and have light strings put on it. Whatcha think?

 

Thanks again for all the great responses. Now to figure out what to do with this thing. It's so funny - I was actually practicing on a little old Steinberger "Spirit" with no amp....lol....no wonder my new guitar sounds so killer!!!!

[Cortfan]

Welcome to the forum. You have made a good choice with the Yamaha. You have also made a good choice to get it properly set up, and restrung with lighter gauge strings. Sounds like you are on the right track. The next step is find a good teacher, and practice. You will have muscles in your hands that will be sore and your fingertips will be tender until they harden up. Warning: this guitar stuff is addictive.

[PapaTom]

Congradulations. It sounds like you made a good choice. I hope that you have many enjoyable hours getting acquainted with your new guitar. Don't be afraid to ask any questions.

[ShesGotVerve]

Thanks guys. I posted in the Lesson Loft, something called "OMG I'm horrible!" or something like that.

 

It explains how my evening went.

[kwakatak]

Congratulations! That's a pretty good starter guitar and you could always upgrade the components over time if you plan to keep it as you improve. Since it's a solid and not laminated top, just watch out for extremes in humidity and temperature. You might want to get a hardshell case for it when your budget allows to protect the guitar.

[Cams]

Congratulations ShesGot. And now let the journey commence

[Nath]

You guys talked about the nut width being a bit large on the Seagulls. What kinda problems can this cause? I'm 5'9" with what I think are relatively long fingers and the width didnt seem to bother me, but i may be missing something seeing as i don't know how to play.

 

Also you mentioned the guitar shapes. I dreadnought size doesnt seem to bother me, but would it be a good idea to start with a smaller "Folk" size even if it does seem a bit small to me?

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

[USian Pie]

 

Originally posted by Nath You guys talked about the nut width being a bit large on the Seagulls. What kinda problems can this cause? I'm 5'9" with what I think are relatively long fingers and the width didnt seem to bother me, but i may be missing something seeing as i don't know how to play.

 

 

I'm 5'9" as well and my hands are small-to-average. Like I said, the Seagull is about as wide as I want to go in a steel string.

 

The extra width and flat-ish fingerboard radius mean I have to work a little harder to fret some barre chords cleanly on all six strings.

 

For example, here's a shape that shows up in one of my fingerpicking tunes:

 

---5^4---

---5------

---X------

---X------

---4------

---4------

 

With a wide nut, getting a clean pull-off on the high E while playing the bass line on the low E and A is a little tougher.

 

Here's a G9 chord that looks easy enough but gives me some hand strain with a wide nut:

 

---5---

---3---

---4---

---3---

---5---

---3---

 

Try doing a clean pull-off from the 5th fret to the 3rd on the high E while fretting every string cleanly.

 

On the other hand, these same shapes can be problematic if the nut width is too narrow. When the strings are too close, it's easier to accidently "cover" an adjacent string.

 

Nylon-string guitars have wider nuts, of course, but the lower string tension makes it easy to play and hold these shapes cleanly.

 

A lot of it just depends on what you're used to. If you play anything long enough, it will probably feel natural.

[Preacher Will]

 

Originally posted by desaljs . . . the A & L brand does not have a solid wood top. These are nicely made guitars for the money and the sound is good to my humble ears................................

 

 

Sorry to quibble, but A&L makes both lam and solid top guitars. The Wild Cherry line, which are the ones that are virtually identical to the Seagull S-6, have solid tops. And yes, they are nicely made and do sound good. I've had one for a couple of years.

[Preacher Will]

 

Originally posted by Nath You guys talked about the nut width being a bit large on the Seagulls. What kinda problems can this cause? I'm 5'9" with what I think are relatively long fingers and the width didnt seem to bother me, but i may be missing something seeing as i don't know how to play. Also you mentioned the guitar shapes. I dreadnought size doesnt seem to bother me, but would it be a good idea to start with a smaller "Folk" size even if it does seem a bit small to me? Sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

 

Nut width is largely a subjective issue. Along with fingerboard radius (more a concern in electrics than acoustics) it changes the way the guitar feels in your hand. But, there are some objective realities to take into consideration. Typically, people who are mainly strummers, playing rythmn chords with few single note runs, prefer a slightly narrower nut width and a tighter fingerboard radius. It makes wrapping your fingers around the neck for things like barre chords eaiser. Those who are "lead" players, primarily focusing on single note playing, find a wider, flatter fingerboard better meets their needs. It gives a little more room for note separation and prevents fretting out when bending. Frankly, I find the nut width of the Seagull VERY pleasing. Kind of half-way between a standard steel-string and a classical.

[Buzzy]

The typical Dreadnought guitar is probably the worst ergonomic instrument this side of the tuba. It can and does cause major damage to the nerve running up the inside of your arm. That is why Laskin guitars bevel the top of the lower bout. After Three years of numbness, I got rid of mine and bought a Larrivee OM-01 used for 800 Canadian. Now I'm in heaven

[desaljs]

Buzzy,

 

Good point about the ergonomics (relationship between man and machine) of dreadnaughts. I have a wonderful Ibanez AW200 that sounds beautiful. Great action, wonderful sustain etc. I would consider trading it since it is so uncomfortable to sit with and play. My wife bought it for me about 7 years ago, and I do not have the heart to part with it, but..............................

[accord dude]

You know when I first was thinking about an acoustic guitar I really wondered about my size Im only 5'8'' and the size of a guitar I would buy. So I started looking at the 000-15 and liked it but then I tryed out the HD-28 on advice from my instructor he thought it was a bit more sutied for my playing style and the extra size of the Hd-28 really did not bother me at all. So what Im sayinmg is you might just adjust to the biger instrument and it feel fine. But I really think that the D size tured out to be the best fit for me the 000 feels a bit small to me but I do enjoy them

And OM size instruments might be a good posibility. Or how about a taylor x14 size i found the 314 and 514 enjoyable to play and listne to.

[bek]

My nickel's worth: my first good acoustic was a 1972 Guild D25. Yes, it's big and awkward sometimes (especially seated), but I have never encountered anything quite like it. I recently played a 2001 Martin HD28 and it showed me nothing. Tonal power is everything to me, and the Guild has it big-time. All that said, I'd really like a small-bodied one, preferably with a mahogany top. Congrats on the Yamaha, all the ones I've played have been pretty nice.

[FingerBone Bill]

Size isn't everything.

 

My 000 is noticeable louder that my Dread.

[mdevito493]

With the exception of a few vintage D-28s and D-35s, the biggest acoustic sounds I've ever heard have come from smaller-bodied guitar. Nothing wrong with dreadnaughts, but they're no gold standard of volume or fullness of sound. Which size is suitable is mostly a function of how you play and what you want to play.