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Dreadnought VS. 000?


ShesGotVerve

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Okay folks, I'm painfully new; not only to this board but to the acoustic guitar as well. I say this in hopes you fine, upstanding people will go easy on me. This first question of mine may seem reasonable enough, but there's no telling what the near (or far) future may hold...cough.

 

For over 15 years I've wanted to learn acoustic; I have a brother (out-of-state) who's played for 35 years and is a teacher, so I grew up with the beautiful sounds of his Martin emanating throughout the house.

 

At 36, I do believe the time is now. I'm not getting any younger and either is my brain. I'm prepared to start researching my first guitar purchase (which won't be the D-28 I r-e-a-l-l-y want....how fiscally irresponsible would THAT be?)

 

So, to the question: I'm a petite thing (5'4"/very small frame) and have found when I've held a dreadnought body style the guitar seems to gobble me whole and my shoulder is reaching for the sky.

 

It's been recommended to me by an instructor that I *might* hire for lessons to look at a triple 0 instead. He says the smaller body size would be more suitable for me.

 

Here's my conundrum: I'm concerned about sacrificing the fullness of sound you get from a dread in exchange for being somewhat (?) more comfortable.

 

Do those of you who have an opinion, well, have an opinion? I do have the option to trade up to a dread at a later date, but my concern is that if I don't care much for the sound I get from a parlor style 000 body, I won't enjoy the experience as much. Kind of like buying a Sportster when you really wanted a Dyna Glide.

 

Thanks in advance for your sage words of advice. And wait till I go to the Lesson Loft and moan about how the chords hurt my hands, I can't change them without having to take a break to ponder the next one, and the pick keeps flying out of my hand (even once making a slam-dunk right into the sound hole!)

 

Oh yeah, this is going to be fun.

 

 

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I think that starting out, you should get the best guitar you can afford, that is the most comfortble for you to play. Guitar is a difficult instrument to learn - don't make it harder on yourself than you need to.

 

Thank goodness, guitars are made in so many sizes and shapes, you have a huge selection from which to pick and choose. I'd also caution about getting fixated on a particular brand. Martins are great guitars, but look through this forum and you'll find knowlegable people who don't like the way they play or sound.

 

Try guitars with different neck shapes and widths, as well as different body sizes and styles, and pick the one that suits you best. Don't worry about the "fullness"of sound until you can produce good sounds consistantly, and you find that you have advanced beyond your instrument's capablities.

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Best sounding/playing guitar I've enjoyed so far: Dad's Martin D-35

 

Second best: My warranty-rebuilt Taylor 414CE

 

Third best: No joke -- a Seagull S6 Anniversary model (Dad's again).

 

These three guitars are all over the map in terms of price, materials, and design. They also produce different sounds. The thing is... each one produces a uniquely pleasant sound.

 

Do I love the "velvet hammer" quality of every note that Rosewood Martin Dread produces? Absolutely.

 

On the other hand, the Martin doesn't have the oddly piano-like quality of the bass strings on the Seagull (that guitar is a freak -- in a good way).

 

And neither has the sweetly balanced voice of the Taylor.

 

Point is, dreadnoughts in general and Martins in particular have a great sound but so do other shapes/sizes/prices of guitars. I usually associate dreads with deeper sounds but not necessarily sweeter or richer.

 

So I'd say give a few other styles and even brands a try.

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For me a 000 is a more balanced sound but there's nothing wrong with dreads either.

 

Take a listen to my recent thread titled "New Track - Opinions welcome (good or bad)". That was recorded on a 000.

 

For a "strummer" I'd come down in favour of dreads. But at this early stage of your development I'd go with what makes life easy rather than worry about where your guitar sits in the tonal landscape.

 

Have you considered a Taylor "Baby" a reasonably priced

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I think at this early stage in your playing career comfort should be slightly more of a priority than tone. You wouldn't want to be put off by aching shoulders and loss of circulation now, would you?

 

I would think a grand auditorium-sized instrument (OM) would be a safe compromise. You should be able to find a Taylor x14 to try at a local store as they're fairly easy to find - the x14 denotes a grand auditorium size, and the preceding single digit, the woods used and level of appointments. If it's an x14ce it will have a cutaway and electronics fitted.

 

This size of guitar offers more balance than a dreadnought but can still have a nice bottom end.

 

And, although this may sound strange, you may even find a jumbo to be more comfortable than a dreadnought because of its narrower waist. Or perhaps a small jumbo would suit better as it's similar in dimensions to an OM but with more depth (meaning more bottom end).

 

In short, there are a whole lot of body sizes to choose from, each with its strengths and weaknesses, but I would suggest a GA/OM size makes the best all-rounder and offers comfort.

 

Best advice: get out to the shops and try and many guitars as you can. If possible, take someone with you who can play so you can sit in front and listen with a bit of distance between you and the guitar; that way you'll be able to pick up on the tone a bit better, but, more particularly, the volume.

 

Good luck and enjoy your quest!

 

Cams

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I was going to post the same question here, but I decided to go with a Martin 000-15 over the D-15 I was considering. I think you should get a guitar that's comfortable to play, otherwise it will be a chore to practice. I am used to the dreadnought body style but the 000 feels more comfortable to me sitting down. Plus, most of the time I am playing by myself, for bedroom practicing and recording. The smaller bass response has its benefits - easier to record and if you don't have a strong voice (I don't) it doesn't overpower it. My 0.02

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I have a D28 28 yrs old. Was my one and only for years. Great sound etc. but not comfortable to play sitting. Now that I'm ooooold I like to play sitting. I got a 00-15 and I wouldn't worry about the volume, the little boxes can hold their own with anything short of a Martin Dred. I play almost exclusively my 00-15 or my MacCormick 00 custom.

 

Today when I gig I plug in so it doesn't make that much difference. In the olden days (when there were dinosaurs as my grandson says) I gigged with out amps and the D-28 was the way to go, made people move back from the front rows.

 

Go with what is comfortable to play. Check out 00 000 and OM sizes.

 

doug

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There are many women that play dreads and seem quite comfortable doing so. Sheryl Crow, who's a hair under 5'4", comes to mind. In fact, I've seen her play a Gibson Jumbo on more than one occasion. You may want to look at how she positions the guitar. I'm 5'9" and also felt overwhelmed by the size of my guitar when I sat down for my first lesson. Now, I hold it much differently and play very comfortably.

 

Mark

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There are many women that play dreads and seem quite comfortable doing so. Sheryl Crow, who's a hair under 5'4", comes to mind.

 

Yes, but the difference is Sheryl Crow can play a guitar! And I'll bite on this one: if I can't play the instrument yet, how do I know what it is I need? Also, how do I go and "try them out" when there's no way on Earth I would attempt playing in front of a salesperson who'd be laughing till he cried (if I wasn't standing there in front of him that is)?

 

I used to play piano a l-o-n-g time ago and there really isn't a need to select a comfortable piano. Upright vs. grand, sure, and sound too, but one size fits all with a piano.

 

A guitar, coming in so many body styles and sizes, is leaving me stymied. The dread I've practiced on wants to slide off my leg. I'm going to be great in concert, yup.

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I would look for a comfortable sized instrument. If you are in the learning phase (as I am), I think you will enjoy a smaller bodied guitar. I purchased a Seagull Grand (about the same size as a parlor but with 14 frets clear of the body), and love its size. The learning process is difficult enough, and you should try to be comfortable while doing this. By the way, the tone of my relatively inexpensive Seagull is great, and I spend much more time with it over my Ibanez Artwood dread......

 

Good luck and try a bunch of guitars before you buy.

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First, welcome to the forum! You've come to the right place. Lots of helpful, knowledgable folks here.

 

I understand your problem with dreads' size. I'm a pretty large guy, but I'm in a wheelchair; dreads are uncomfortable for me, even in a classical posture.

 

I don't think you necessarily have to give up the "fullness" of sound by going to a smaller body size. If anything, I find dreads to be a bit bottom-heavy (blanket generalization). 000s and OMs sound a lot more balanced across the frequency range to me, and a lot of them are surprisingly loud.

 

Don't worry about what the salesperson thinks. They've seen (and heard) worse than you, believe me. When I'm shopping for a new guitar, I like to take another guitarist with me and have them play the guitar so I can hear what it sounds like from the listener's perspective as well as my own.

 

If it's a hassle to play, you're not going to want to play it, no matter what it is. Find an instrument YOU like. That's all that really matters.

 

Good luck!

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Some 000 size guitars sound louder and have more bass than some drednaughts. A lot of other factors go into the sound of a guitar. How it is braced, scale length, how thin the board is in the periphery, bridge size and weight. Just play a lot of 000 guitars until you find one that has a lot of thump on the bass strings. they're out there. Just have to play a lot of them.

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You've got some good advice in this thread. Trying a guitar is pretty much a necessity in order for you to check out the comfort factor. Even if you're just sitting playing a couple of badly strummed chords, you'll get a big idea of the comfort. Heck, all you need to do is play each open string in turn for an idea of the balance.

 

Enjoy the journey!

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Welcome to the forum! You're not the only one to have issues with the size of a dreadnaught. I'm 5'10" and have been playing what is essentially a budget carbon copy of an early 1970s D-28 and have similar sentiments. Lately I've been doing a lot of fingerpicking and the dread is just too much to handle with any finesse, so I've been playing it classical style to compensate for the guitar's girth. If reach is not an issue in that dept, you may want to try that if you've got your heart set on a dread

 

Cams has the right idea IMO and you should also consider either a grand auditorium (GA) or an Orchestra Model (OM). Taylor guitars are the only grand auditorium that I've seen, while Martin, Santa Cruz and Larriv

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BTW, I only want to spend a couple hundred bucks on this first guitar. That way if I really suck I won't feel guilty for spending 2k on an instrument that looks pretty, smells great, and collects dust.

 

All suggestions welcomed. I'm really excited to bring a 15+ year dream to fruition, but I'm intimidated as hell. Rarely does something intimidate me, but looking at a wall of guitars will do it toot sweet.

 

 

 

:eek:

 

Now....I'll hop over to another area to ask another in what will probably be a long chain of questions. Thanks guys and gals (so far I've only seen guys and I really hate that!)

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Originally posted by ShesGotVerve

BTW, I only want to spend a couple hundred bucks on this first guitar. That way if I really suck I won't feel guilty for spending 2k on an instrument that looks pretty, smells great, and collects dust.


All suggestions welcomed. I'm really excited to bring a 15+ year dream to fruition, but I'm intimidated as hell. Rarely does something intimidate me, but looking at a wall of guitars will do it toot sweet.




:eek:

Now....I'll hop over to another area to ask another in what will probably be a long chain of questions. Thanks guys and gals (so far I've only seen guys and I really
hate
that!)

desaljs mentioned Seagull---great guitars for little money. Worth a look.

 

Sorry about the gender imbalance 'round here. I agree---it would be good to have more women in the mix! Now there's something you can make a difference at: stick around! Maybe your presence will encourage others to post here.

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I would also suggest getting a 000 or smaller guitar, though there's absolutely nothing wrong with a dreadnought.

The 000 usually has light-gauge strings, which is easier on one's hands. And the smaller shape is somewhat easier to get comfortable with...

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Regarding the $200 limit and Seagulls:

 

My fondness for Seagulls is boundless but, for a first guitar for petite person, I think the wide nut width might create problems.

 

I'm an average-sized guy with small-to-medium hands. The 1.8" nut on most Seagulls is right at the limit of what I want in a steel-string -- even for fingerpicking.

 

On the other hand, Seagull's parent company has some interesting offerings from their "Art and Lutherie" and "Simon and Patrick" brands. These are more traditional in shape, still very good bang-for-the-buck, and less... uh... ambitious in their neck dimensions.

 

It's just a thought. The neck thing may or may not apply in your case.

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On the other hand, Seagull's parent company has some interesting offerings from their "Art and Lutherie" and "Simon and Patrick" brands. These are more traditional in shape, still very good bang-for-the-buck, and less... uh...
ambitious
in their neck dimensions.


It's just a thought. The neck thing may or may not apply in your case.

 

lol.....and I was just about to reply to the Seagull suggestion. The "neck thing" matters a lot.....

 

I've heard lots of great things about the Seagull for the price, but no, I do NOT want a wide neck. I was looking at the S6 Grand and Folk, but not if they have wide necks. It's uncomfortable enough to change chords now, and even with long fingers I don't want to have to deal with wrapping around a wide neck.

 

I'll google Seagull's parent companies you mentioned, although I've not heard of them before. Wonder if it would be hard to find a local dealer.

 

Thanks......

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The Art & Lutherie series (made buy the same company that makes Seagulls) is well worth looking into. They have the conventional 1 11/16 nut width and can go for a cost of around $150- $250.

Washburn, Alvarez and Yamaha also make decent low cost guitars in the $200 range. Yamaha makes a "starter" guitar package for less than $200 with the F310 "folk" small body guitar. Have fun shopping.

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For my money I'm probably not going to get a solid back, but what's the popular opinion about a solid top vs. laminated? I know a laminated won't age, but for my purposes does it really matter? Is the sound on the less expensive laminated top really bad? I mean so bad that I can't stand the sound it's making? Even with no ear for tone.......

 

I'm going to stroll around a big music store here; the kind that sells every brand under the sun and, I dunno, hold some instruments. :o

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A couple of affordable "folk" size options would be the Alvarez RF20s (folk version of the RD20s) and the Washburn F10S (folk version of the D10s). They're both solid spruce top guitars with the standard nut width. Neither should run for more than $200 but they may difficult to find. Be sure to get an instructor.

 

Mark

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