Members WilsonMak Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 How come it's always Martin vs Taylor and not Taylor vs gibson or martin vs gibson? It was the whole Martin vs Taylor hype that made me skip a lot of gibson acoustics. I did try some, but everytime I do it's gibson's with dead strings so I know I'm not hearing it's potential. I use to be hardcore taylor until I heard some martins with brand spanking new strings. Do Gibson's just have a certain lower end dogma abotuthem or something? From a recording artist point of view I personally like the sounds of guitars that come out of a gibson player's cd the best out of the three. unplugged I like Martin and plugged in live I like Taylor. so why is gibson being left out in the cold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 59refin Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 My take on this is Gibson has a long history of below average acoustics. I'd say right now Montana is turning out some very fine guitars. but their reputation proceeds them. In the mid '70's I bought a '58 J-200. Absolutely gorgeous guitar, fun to play, but it should have stayed a tree. The J-200 was very boomy, no articulation at all. I sold it and bought a D-35. Oh, so THAT was what I had been missing. My point is, Gibson has made great and not so great guitars. They tend to be more heavily braced which kind of closes the sound up IMHO. Having said that, I've recently played some new Gibson acoustics that I would place along side anything Martin is making right now. To me, Gibson acoustics are not very consistent, but once you find the right one, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SurrealMcCoy Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 I think that the issue of QC with Gibson has been rather "spotty". A 1960's Hummingbird bares little resemblance to a new one......if any......... It is very difficult (at least for me) to find a new J-45 that resembles a vintage model (in build or tone). Yet these problems don't seem to affect a non mass producing company like Santa Cruz..............sorry..........getting OT...... The other issue, is the fact that both Martin & Taylor have designed models that are lower priced and that pretty much create a closer competition between comparible builds and various tone............ ...........meaning that if you prefer a darker or brighter tone..........desire a certain playability factor..........and finally............set a price point............Taylor vs. Martin can make an interesting debate between closer contenders........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WilsonMak Posted June 17, 2004 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 so Gibson acoustics today are mainly selling for their ridiculous price only because of their brand name? So it really is true that the epiphone elite or mastebuilt models are just as good as the montana ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Northern Rocker Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 Gibson, Taylor and Larrivee don't interest me in any manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members peppy Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 Better yet why not Santa Cruz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Northern Rocker Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 or Lowden or Lakewood ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bullpencoach Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 I'm surprised that Gibson has not come out with a smaller body acoustic >$1000 to compete with similar Taylors and Martins. I agree that many of the Gibson acoustics I've tried in sotres seemed a little dead as well. beautiful, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WilsonMak Posted June 17, 2004 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 Are there any goof acoustic guitarist that use Gibson? Sure, Sheryl crow and Chris cabbana can write and sing...but their playing skills don't have the aura of a doyle dykes, Leo Kottke or Tommy Emmanuel. I don't think the Chet atkins counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 I agree that Gibson has had some quality issues in the past...especially in the mid 70's Norlin era. But Martins from that time period weren't so great either (huge thick rosewood bridgeplates) Both companies seemed to learn from the mistakes by the 1980s and are making fine guitars today. Labor saving CNC routing technology allowed them to avoid grunt work and concentrate of cosmetics and tone. Nowdays I think Gibson hummingbirds, J-185s and J200's are awesome guitars with a character that make Taylors and Martins sound sterile. The jumbo maple Gibsons particularly beat out Taylors and Martins in my opinion for constistency and tone in side by side comparisons at most music stores I've been to. I have 2 early 90's J200's and they are absolute heaven for strumming and singing with alone with no electronics around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Singin' Dave Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 Those Gibby's above are PRETTY!! From what I've heard, QC is the big issue with Gibson's. If you find one that sings, you are in business, but its more miss than hit on this front. Of course, I'm just regurgitating stuff I've heard...so take it with a very large grain of ignorant salt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SurrealMcCoy Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 Originally posted by guitarcapo I agree that Gibson has had some quality issues in the past...especially in the mid 70's Norlin era. But Martins from that time period weren't so great either (huge thick rosewood bridgeplates) Both companies seemed to learn from the mistakes by the 1980s and are making fine guitars today. Labor saving CNC routing technology allowed them to avoid grunt work and concentrate of cosmetics and tone. Nowdays I think Gibson hummingbirds, J-185s and J200's are awesome guitars with a character that make Taylors and Martins sound sterile. The jumbo maple Gibsons particularly beat out Taylors and Martins in my opinion for constistency and tone in side by side comparisons at most music stores I've been to. I have 2 early 90's J200's and they are absolute heaven for strumming and singing with alone with no electronics around. Hey guitarcapo, Everytime I see those beautiful J-200's of yours.........I drool..... If I didn't make myself clear.........I'd like too......... My post was more or less addressing the multitudes of Martin 15, 16 comparrisons with Taylor 2xx, 3xx, etc. series instruments that I constantly read on this forum. I in no way mean't to downplay a quality Gibson instrument..........just the ones that are over priced because of their headstock namesake............and the ones that don't live up (build & tone quality) to their predecessors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LittleBrother Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 There are some exceptions ocassionally but for the most part those 3 brands are all completely off my radar screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riffmeister Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 I'm taking a stand on this one. Guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WilsonMak Posted June 17, 2004 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 Originally posted by LittleBrother There are some exceptions ocassionally but for the most part those 3 brands are all completely off my radar screen. why's that little brother? Do you not believe in factory guitars and the prices they charge? Youi like the smaller builders? CApitalism bad? It's ok if you're a communist! I still appreciate you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chirpy_72 Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 Originally posted by WilsonMak why's that little brother? Do you not believe in factory guitars and the prices they charge? Youi like the smaller builders? CApitalism bad? It's ok if you're a communist! I still appreciate you... LB's a Santa Cruz / Larrivee man. Two of the FINEST guitar makers for fingerstyle blues player like the man himself. ( Although LB, after you see the pics of the Martin OM-28V I'm picking up hopefully this weekend .... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LittleBrother Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 No, I still look at them but when I stack the best of what the small builders have up against the best of the factory builders there is just no comparison. Now if the factory guitars really cost less and provide incredible value like the Larrivee. I find it hard to resist but my days of getting teary eyed over Gibson and Martin are over. I am finally free of that illusion. Not that they dont make a few great ones here and there but I can get the same exact model types except a much better guitar for the same ball park price or a little more. Larrivee is one of my exceptions simply because of the incredible value and what I see as great quality for the dollar. I would buy more Martins but the ones I end up liking usually cost as much as a hand made guitar so why bother and so few of them really strike me as truly wonderful. To me it's more about craftsmanship and attention to detail you get when hundreds of guitars are not squirted out per day or week. My point is simply this. When you look at the forest dont just see 3 trees. Look at the whole forest. To have a conversation about 3 brands is almost equivalent to tunnel vision or blinders. I'm not sure how that ties in with communism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riffmeister Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 Originally posted by Chirpy_72 LB's a Santa Cruz / Larrivee man........ What??? No Collings? And I thought LB knew guitars.......sheesh...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spijk Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 You know you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Adoptions Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 [ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members proax Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 Good question Gibsons are way better than both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FNG Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 Saw a used J-200 Ray Whitley the other day in a local store, the Western Classic model, used. Sounded just like you would hope a rosewood jumbo would sound. The pickguard was coming unglued, and they wanted 2900 bucks. BYE!! I really like the looks of the j-200, classic, but in my experience they are way too expensive, and the J-100Xtras always sound better for much much less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LittleBrother Posted June 17, 2004 Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 Originally posted by riffmeister What??? No Collings? And I thought LB knew guitars.......sheesh...... I know you're just joking around but joking aside Collings is another great brand. I just say the best thing is to look at all of the great brands today and not get totally stuck on just a few brands. The Taylor vs Martin threads amaze me since they are Apples and Oranges in almost every way. All I mean is look at the big picture and not just the big 3. Proax, I thought Ovations were the best tone ? Let me guess. 1. Ovation 2. Washburn 3. Gibson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WilsonMak Posted June 17, 2004 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2004 Little brother. what do you mean you can get a handcraftred guitar for the price of a martin? The HD-28's I've seen are all in the 2.5K range while the goodall and collings and santa cruz's I've seen are in the 3K+ Custom luthiers I've seen are all 4K+? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LittleBrother Posted June 18, 2004 Members Share Posted June 18, 2004 Originally posted by WilsonMak Little brother. what do you mean you can get a handcraftred guitar for the price of a martin? The HD-28's I've seen are all in the 2.5K range while the goodall and collings and santa cruz's I've seen are in the 3K+ Custom luthiers I've seen are all 4K+? There's actually very little difference when you factor in everything. 500 bucks ? I'd simply say take every purchase and do your research. There are many hand built small builders with fantastic deals but you wont get them on Musicians Friend or at GC. You do have to research more but in the long run you actually save money because you are not buying and selling guitars graduating up through the ranks. You also may possibly get more guitar for the money and be happier. For example my SCGC was one of the nicest VS they make. It cost me about 500.00 more than the full MSRP of the Gibson I liked. It was one of the best decisions I ever made. It also cost alot less than buying a 4-5K vintage 1940/50s Gibson that I considered. And it sounds better for that matter. It's a judgement call but all I am saying is do your research. SCGC sells the Prewar D and OM for as low as 2k and those things have won contests with Martins 3 times their price. The values are there but you do have to look harder. Dont look at just the brands I favor. Look at as many as possible. One real eye opener is to visit a REAL guitar shop with some high end guitars. In a few years of doing that alot you will easily be able to hear the differences in the average new Martin and many other brands that are not THAT much more expensive. In some cases even just as cheap. The deals are out there. As far as hand builders. Check out the hand made AJ Gibson style guitars at www.cbguitars.com . I think he makes a Gibson better than Gibson for about 2K. Now hows THAT for amazing? http://www.cbguitars.com/guitars.htm Wilson look at this one !!!!! http://www.cbguitars.com/Special-Mahogany42.htm :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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