Members rushboardrider Posted July 21, 2004 Members Posted July 21, 2004 Do all USTs suffer from 'quack'?
Members woody b Posted July 21, 2004 Members Posted July 21, 2004 I guess they all do to some extent but some are better than others. I prefer B-bands but different playing styles might affect the "quack". Little Brothers "clay shim trick" helps alot. I don't have a link to it handy but if LB doesn't post it I;ll find it later.
Members Danocoustic Posted July 21, 2004 Members Posted July 21, 2004 Originally posted by rushboardrider Do all USTs suffer from 'quack'? No. Depending on how you define USTs. I use LR Baggs' iBeam transducer. Not a piezo unit, but still technically a UST. It attaches to the bridge plate below the saddle. No "quack" whatsoever, the truest acoustic tone I've found yet. Run through an LR Baggs PADI, rivals a mic (well, not quite, but the convenience makes up for the difference). Every piezo unit I've ever tried "quacks"---though a good DI and judicious EQ help a lot.
Members rushboardrider Posted July 21, 2004 Author Members Posted July 21, 2004 I'd like to try the I beam, but I've heard that it's not as feedback resistant as piezo USTs. There fore I'm stuck with the piezo I think. I've recently tried the M1, It's a tight fit and only fits across the center of the sound hole in my guitar. Also my fingers and pick strike the M1 so I'm back to the UST. rbr
Members RainsongDR1000 Posted July 21, 2004 Members Posted July 21, 2004 Originally posted by Danocoustic No. Depending on how you define USTs. I use LR Baggs' iBeam transducer. Not a piezo unit, but still technically a UST. It attaches to the bridge plate below the saddle. No "quack" whatsoever, the truest acoustic tone I've found yet. Run through an LR Baggs PADI, rivals a mic (well, not quite, but the convenience makes up for the difference). Every piezo unit I've ever tried "quacks"---though a good DI and judicious EQ help a lot. I guess I assumed an I-beam would be classified as an AST (Acoustic soundboard transducer). A true UST fits directly under the saddle between the saddle and bridge. And yes, they all will quack to a degree, some worse than others. There are a lot of things you can do to minimize it. Use medium gauge strings, not play so hard, pick further away from the bridge, use little bro's clay shim trick. I've found that a cheap Zoom 504II effects box does quite a good job of lessening, if not eliminating, quack. I've never had an i-beam, but it works on the same principal as the K&K I had. a bit more natural sounding and no quack, but also less string definition and .yes, more feedback prone. I have an AKG condensor mic that also "rivals a mic", the reason I don't use it to gig much? Feedback! I also have a Baggs PADI and use it with the Zoom and in my opinion, as far as eliminating quack, the Zoom works better. It's funny, I've only read one not -s0-positive review on the K&K and a lot of negative reviews on the i-beam. I can't help but think it must be a positioning problem since they both work on the same principal.
Members tac5 Posted July 21, 2004 Members Posted July 21, 2004 Try a K&K Pure Western. You won't be sorry. I think some of the bad criticism can be traced to which preamp is used. I use a Yamaha AG Stomp and the acoustic sound is phenomenal. Feedback control is great with this unit. It's basically a mic modeling device with added features. I am totally happy with it. I run two different Taylor 914cs (maple and rosewood) through this set up. It beats the heck out of their ES system, in my opinion.
Members rushboardrider Posted July 21, 2004 Author Members Posted July 21, 2004 Thanks for the info guys, it's much appreciated. tac5Preamp wise I'm stuck with the onboard one or at the very least a preamp that will fit in the hole. RainsongDR1000I have a zoom 504II, It works great. But I do a lot of open mike nights and the engineer expects you to just plug in and go. The guitar I have is not an expensive branded model, but it's a nice jumbo with a big sound when unplugged. Most of the others who play have nice expensive guitar (Martins & Taylors fitted with fishman martix or simular) they sound great (very little quack). I'm looking for that easy plug and play solution (but not too expensive). rbr
Members EvilTwin Posted July 21, 2004 Members Posted July 21, 2004 As noted earlier, yes, most UST's will have that quack. But LB's clay shim trick has worked wonders for a lot of guys here. I'm going to try it with my Dean Markley "Sweet Spot." The SS already sounds OK, just the usual piezo brittleness and some quack...so if that can be improved upon, I'd highly recommend it for a "plug in and play" pickup. It's a very loud pickup that you can pretty much plug straight into a PA and get a good sound, plus it doesn't feedback terribly. The passive K&K Pure Western is supposed to be much more natural sounding, along with being loud in its own right and able to be plugged straight into a PA to get a good sound. I'll be getting the K&K for my Tacoma DM18 to see how it works out. But I trust the people here who recommend it. But for a straight UST, I just go with the SS. UST's are never going to capture all the magic of your acoustic, so I think it's best just to get something simple that sounds good. Bridge plate transducers are the wave of the future, though, imo. In a few years, most feedback problems will probably be sorted out. I can't wait to try out the K&K.
Members RainsongDR1000 Posted July 21, 2004 Members Posted July 21, 2004 Originally posted by rushboardrider [ RainsongDR1000 I have a zoom 504II, It works great. But I do a lot of open mike nights and the engineer expects you to just plug in and go. B] Open mics were where I had the biggest problems with the K&K, mostly because the soundman (if there even was one) has everything set to the standard Fishman Matrix setup. Most weren't willing go to the trouble to re-dial in everything for the K&K. I'm sure having a big ole' rosewood dread didn't help matters either. If you're playing a lot of open mics and you think the Fishman eqipped Taylors sounded good? Get yourself a Baggs Element active and you won't be sorry. Sounds more natural and dynamic than the Fishman, more feedback resistant and easier to install, plus there is a small volume knob that clips in the soundhole (quite handy when the soundguy at the open mic won't give your guitar enough volume). $85.00 at Shoreline Music.
Members Fleabitten Posted July 22, 2004 Members Posted July 22, 2004 I have a K&K pure western in a dread that I use at open mics at least once a week and have never had an issue with feedback. It is not the pickup of choice if you play with a band though.
Members Jim S Posted July 22, 2004 Members Posted July 22, 2004 I have the K&K Trinity in my Larrivee jumbo J-10KK and haven't had any major feedback problems yet. The mic blended with the UST Pure Western helps to diminish the quack albeit the Pure Western by istelf has relatively little quack and sounds darn good. My Martin HD-28 has Sunrise soundhole pup and Fishman which sounds great too. POINT: I think blending another pup with an UST really helps to lessen or hide the quack.
Members rushboardrider Posted July 22, 2004 Author Members Posted July 22, 2004 In the interest of achieving a more natural sound. Using a sound board transducer such as the KK pure western or the lr baggs Ibeam in conjuction with a soundhole plug. Can these be as loud as the USTs without any outboard preamps or DIs? rbr
Members EvilTwin Posted July 22, 2004 Members Posted July 22, 2004 Originally posted by rushboardrider In the interest of achieving a more natural sound. Using a sound board transducer such as the KK pure western or the lr baggs Ibeam in conjuction with a soundhole plug. Can these be as loud as the USTs without any outboard preamps or DIs?rbr Well, from K&K's web site... "They (the transducer pickups in the Pure Western) sound full and rich and have sufficient output to drive most amps and PA systems directly!" http://www.kksound.com/purewestern.html Of course, they want to tell you what you want to hear, but other K&K users on this forum seem very happy with their pickups. I think if my cheap-o Sweet Spot has enough power to not use a preamp, the K&K should be fine, too.
Members RainsongDR1000 Posted July 22, 2004 Members Posted July 22, 2004 Originally posted by rushboardrider In the interest of achieving a more natural sound. Using a sound board transducer such as the KK pure western or the lr baggs Ibeam in conjuction with a soundhole plug. Can these be as loud as the USTs without any outboard preamps or DIs? rbr The K&K, pretty close. I found it wasn't quite as loud as my active Fishman matrix, but loud enough The ibeam you will need to make sure you get the active, not passive version. A soundhole cover will certainly help. Since I often use an external mic when possible, I don't use a soundhole cover unless I'm playing w/ a band.
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