Upgrading my Acoustic Electric - Martin, Taylor, Gibson or Larrivee?

[dmkkeng]

I have been looking at the Martin 16 series, Taylor 300 series, Gibson j45 and Larrivee 03 models.

 

If I was going to pick a guitar specifically for strumming I would likely choose the Gibson J45 - this is a sweet sounding guitar. However I also want it for finger picking and my preference for finger picking is a brighter sounding guitar. The Taylor and Martin appear to be the better guitars for this purpose.

 

In terms of build guality the Martin, Taylor and Larrivee are better than the Gibson.

 

In terms of playability, the Martin was the easiest to play however it may have been set up better then the other guitars.

 

They are all nice sounding guitars, so its difficult to pick one over the other - anyone else have any comments good or bad about these guitars? Any other suggestions?

[Jon Hiller]

Don't rule out a Tacoma, either, if you haven't checked one out before. I had never played one until this week. A friend of mine bought a broken one off eBay, a DM-18. It had the headstock broken nearly completely off. I repaired it for him and I got it back together and played around on it this past saturday, and I have to say it's one of the finest sounding acoustic guitars I have ever laid my hands on. If you like a guitar with nice strong lows, but a mid and treble range that don't get drowned out, you ought to check one out. This particular guitar has the nicest sounding midrange tone of almost any guitar I have ever heard.

[solitaire]

 

Originally posted by dmkkeng In terms of build guality the Martin, Taylor and Larrivee are better than the Gibson.

 

Depends what you put into the word 'quality'. I mean they might be a bit sloppy built, but all Gibbies have dovetail neckjoints and nitrocellulouse lacquer. No Taylor has either of these.

[solitaire]

 

Originally posted by dmkkeng I have been looking at the Martin 16 series, Taylor 300 series, Gibson j45 and Larrivee 03 models. If I was going to pick a guitar specifically for strumming I would likely choose the Gibson J45 - this is a sweet sounding guitar. However I also want it for finger picking and my preference for finger picking is a brighter sounding guitar. The Taylor and Martin appear to be the better guitars for this purpose. They are all nice sounding guitars, so its difficult to pick one over the other - anyone else have any comments good or bad about these guitars? Any other suggestions?

 

The intended purpose sound a lot like we could rule out the J-45 Gibby, even if a Gibby is quite pickable. A fair contender Gibson would be a J-180 series maple body (perhaps with phosphor bronze strings). However no Gibby can ever provide the attack of the other brands. There's more of a subtle soul to the Gibby, which makes it stand off from the rest of the field.

 

What size/ style of body do you have in mind?

[54merk]

Originally posted by dmkkeng I have been looking at the Martin 16 series, Taylor 300 series, Gibson j45 and Larrivee 03 models. However I also want it for finger picking and my preference for finger picking is a brighter sounding guitar. The Taylor and Martin appear to be the better guitars for this purpose.

 

If you want a good fingerstyle guitar pick one with a 1.75" nut. That will rule out the J45, and most of Martin 16 series since most of them have 1 11/16" nuts. (Check CF Martin's website for the details on the models in this series.)

 

If you will mostly just strum chords, then forget about what I said.

 

If you want a bright sound then go with a Taylor. I like the 314 size the best. This is essentially a 000 size. The larger Dreadnaughts are not particularly well suited for fingerstyle, although they have plenty of volume for strumming.

 

Gibson J45 is a slope shouldered dread body, and there is also a 00016 Martin.

 

My preference are the Larrivees, great for the price, three body sizes to choose from (Dread, in between L size, and OM). The L size is larger than an OM and works well for both strumming and fingerstyle. 1.75" nut as well, so it's a great all around guitar. The O3 series is a steal if you don't mind a satin finish, and you can choose either Mahog or Rosewood bodies.

[slider]

I agree, Taylors are brighter than Martins. it was a toss up for me when I went searching to buy. tried about seven. kept coming back to the Martin. its the DC 16GTE that I got. great flatpicker great strummer. allround good thing for the $$.

[deevee]

Go with your ear, with those guitars to choose from it's a win-win so go for the sound.

 

Also, no one has addressed the "-electric" side of your equation. I just read a review in GP about Martin DC Aura and the Fishman Aura, a fairly sophisticated MIDI system of Sound Images for an acoustic guitar. Here's a link to the OMC Aura.

[Lawton]

 

Originally posted by dmkkeng In terms of build guality the Martin, Taylor and Larrivee are better than the Gibson.

 

 

I've owned three Larrivees, a Taylor, and a Gibson (J45). I can't agree with you. IMO the Larrivees were on par with the J45 quality -wise. The Taylor was not.

 

"Bang for Buck" you won't beat the Larrivees, though. My L-03E ($600 used on Ebay) was as well built and toneful an acoustic as I've ever played.

[dmkkeng]

 

Originally posted by solitaire Depends what you put into the word 'quality'. I mean they might be a bit sloppy built, but all Gibbies have dovetail neckjoints and nitrocellulouse lacquer. No Taylor has either of these.

 

 

I guess I was judging build quality on what I could see which was the exterior finish. It didn't look as refined as the other guitars mentioned.

 

Obviously sound and playability are more important, however after playing all these guitars none stand out as a better guitar than the others.

[dmkkeng]

 

Originally posted by solitaire The intended purpose sound a lot like we could rule out the J-45 Gibby, even if a Gibby is quite pickable. A fair contender Gibson would be a J-180 series maple body (perhaps with phosphor bronze strings). However no Gibby can ever provide the attack of the other brands. There's more of a subtle soul to the Gibby, which makes it stand off from the rest of the field. What size/ style of body do you have in mind?

 

 

I didn't have a size/ style of body in mind other than I didn't want anything that resembles an Ovation in body style or that uses material other than wood for the body of the guitar. I also don't want the Jumbo size body.

 

I agree the Gibson does have a distinctive sound, initially I wasn't considering the Gibson however after playing it for a while I was impressed with its capability when playing chords - maybe I need two guitars, or should I say two more ... one for finger picking and one for strumming.

[dmkkeng]

Originally posted by 54merk If you want a good fingerstyle guitar pick one with a 1.75" nut. That will rule out the J45, and most of Martin 16 series since most of them have 1 11/16" nuts. (Check CF Martin's website for the details on the models in this series.) If you will mostly just strum chords, then forget about what I said. If you want a bright sound then go with a Taylor. I like the 314 size the best. This is essentially a 000 size. The larger Dreadnaughts are not particularly well suited for fingerstyle, although they have plenty of volume for strumming. Gibson J45 is a slope shouldered dread body, and there is also a 00016 Martin. My preference are the Larrivees, great for the price, three body sizes to choose from (Dread, in between L size, and OM). The L size is larger than an OM and works well for both strumming and fingerstyle. 1.75" nut as well, so it's a great all around guitar. The O3 series is a steal if you don't mind a satin finish, and you can choose either Mahog or Rosewood bodies.

 

I believe the 03 series is made locally here in Vancouver - earlier in the year I had the opporunity to purchase one of these guitars at a reduced price. I don't mind the satin finish - how does the size of the nut effect finger picking?

 

The same question for slope shouldered dread body, also what do you mean by slope shouldered?

 

I'll have to admit when it comes to acoustic guitars I'm not as knowledgable as I would like to be.

[54merk]

Originally posted by dmkkeng I guess I was judging build quality on what I could see which was the exterior finish. It didn't look as refined as the other guitars mentioned. Obviously sound and playability are more important, however after playing all these guitars none stand out as a better guitar than the others.

 

Are you aware that the Larrivee 03 has a FULL SATIN FINISH while the 16 series Martin, Gibson J45, and Taylor 300 series have GLOSS TOPS with SATIN FINISHED BODIES This has no effect on the sound however satin finishes are less costly to apply because there is very little drying time. Gloss finishes are applied in several coats which are slow to dry. This is why 03 series Larrivees as relatively inexpensive. You can step up to the 05 series for a gloss finished Mahogany Larry or an 09 series for Rosewood.

 

The wider nut means that there is a bit more space between the strings, making them easier to fingerpick. It will not make strumming or single string flat picking any more difficult. So with the 1.75" nut you can play either style.

 

"Slope Shouldered Dreadnaught" is used to describe the body style of the Gibson J45 series. Look at this guitar next to a Dreadnaught Martin D16 and you should notice that their shapes are quite different. The shoulders of the J45 where the neck joins the body are "sloped" (obviously) while the Martin's are "square". Finally, compare the J45 with a square shouldered Gibson like a Hummingbird. You can find pictures on Gibson's site. How much it affects tone is a good debating subject, but they sure do look and feel different.

 

[dmkkeng]

 

Originally posted by deevee Go with your ear, with those guitars to choose from it's a win-win so go for the sound. Also, no one has addressed the "-electric" side of your equation. I just read a review in GP about Martin DC Aura and the Fishman Aura, a fairly sophisticated MIDI system of Sound Images for an acoustic guitar. Here's a link to the OMC Aura.

 

 

I agree there is not a bad guitar in the bunch - of course that is what is making the decision harder to make.

 

Your right about the electric side, I guess my first priority is a good unplugged sound - I don't think the differences in the electronics are going to sway me one way or the other. One of the guitars (may have been the martin) had both a mic and saddle pickups, you could mix the sound from both - to be honest I don't think there was that big of a difference in the plugged sound.

[dmkkeng]

Originally posted by 54merk Are you aware that the Larrivee 03 has a FULL SATIN FINISH while the 16 series Martin, Gibson J45, and Taylor 300 series have GLOSS TOPS with SATIN FINISHED BODIES This has no effect on the sound however satin finishes are less costly to apply because there is very little drying time. Gloss finishes are applied in several coats which are slow to dry. This is why 03 series Larrivees as relatively inexpensive. You can step up to the 05 series for a gloss finished Mahogany Larry or an 09 series for Rosewood. The wider nut means that there is a bit more space between the strings, making them easier to fingerpick. It will not make strumming or single string flat picking any more difficult. So with the 1.75" nut you can play either style. "Slope Shouldered Dreadnaught" is used to describe the body style of the Gibson J45 series. Look at this guitar next to a Dreadnaught Martin D16 and you should notice that their shapes are quite different. The shoulders of the J45 where the neck joins the body are "sloped" (obviously) while the Martin's are "square". Finally, compare the J45 with a square shouldered Gibson like a Hummingbird. You can find pictures on Gibson's site. How much it affects tone is a good debating subject, but they sure do look and feel different.

 

So the gloss finish better protects the guitar, the 1.75" nut refers to the width of the fingerboard at the nut (wider is better for finger picking) and slope shouldered dreadnaught is descriptive of the body style.

 

I'll have to admit I hadn't given the neck width or finish of the guitar much thought, thanks for the info!

[zwnyc]

I've been conducting pretty much precisely the same search in the same price range for a while now, and have just settled on a Larrivee - in my case, the D-03R.

 

I have to say I never gave any serious consideration to Gibson - no particular reason there - but have researched and auditioned countless Martins, Taylors and Larrivees. Ultimately, these are all first class crafters and the choice boils down to individual taste. These are my simple observations.

 

Martin 16 Series

I love Martin, but if you're looking for Rosewood/Spruce (?), the bottom-line price you're going to pay - for something new - provided all solid wood construction is important is about $1550 (for the D16R). For a few hundred bucks less ($1100 retail), there is the D16RGT; however, what ultimately turned me off to this model in favor of the Larrivee is materials: (1) I hate gloss tops - just a personal preference; (2) the fretboard and bridge on the D16RGT are made of micarta, a synthetic material, and maybe I'm a little crazy but something about this just lacks the soul of natural wood; (3) aesthetically, the combination of the gloss top and the uber-cheap-looking white plastic bindings are just too much to take. I have to admit the guitar sounds great, but I am one of those weirdos who simply cannot live with synthetics. With Martin, this idiosyncrasy would translate to an upgrade to at least a D16 or D16R, but for the money and based on sound quality, in the end I just couldn't justify the monetary increase vs. the Larrivee, which can be had for around $900 USD.

 

Taylor 300 & 400 Series

Very simply, too much of the price is based on the name alone and is not justified by the materials and sound. The one semi-exception I've encountered was a limited edition 410 (Rosewood/Spruce) for $1250 new. In the end, the Larrivee just sounded better.

 

Larrivee

I just couldn't find any drawbacks with these guys. The all-wood construction is great (I wouldn't say aesthetically flawless, but very, very good), their guitars invariably sound beautiful, and in my opinion they'd be perfectly justified charging twice as much as they do for the D-03R. But I'm glad they don't. My opinion would be that I couldn't have settled on a better guitar for less than double the price.

 

-ZW

[franchelB]

All the guitars you mentioned are good.

And just by going from where you're at (Vancouver, B.C.), I would suggest going for the Larrivee L/LV/OM-03 because it'll probably be cheaper than the American guitars.

If you decide not to go with the Larrivee, just choose a smalller bodied guitar like Martin's OOO/OM series or Taylor's 14 series...

[chopz]

Sounds like you prefer Martin so I would go with it.

[Andrewrg]

zwync,I know exactly where you are coming from regarding synthetics but I played and bought a Martin CEO4R not knowing that the bridge and fingerboard are Micarta until I checked the specs.To me it looks,feels and dare I say it,sounds like ebony,and I dont even think about it now.

Personally I would go down the Martin road faced with your choices.

[guitarNed]

I don't agree with the statements that the J45 is bad for finger picking. I will also mention a detail -- the J45 does not have satin finished sides, it is gloss all over. Also, note that Martin uses a dovetail neck joint only on its "standard" series. (And possibly some special models of other series.) In other words, it reserves the dovetail joint for more expensive instruments. The dovetail joint on the J45 is very desirable. It is always a good thing.

 

Something to consider is a J45 rosewood or rosewood custom. They are powerful guitars; if I were a better person, I'd own a J45 rosewood custom! The Fishman transducer in (any of) the J45s sounds very good.

 

For Martins, I recommend the OM and 000 bodies from the 16 line for fingerpicking. The Fishman blend deluxe systems available in the 16 series are very fine. I also agree with another poster about the new Martin Fishman Aura system. I've played it, and it's impressive. There is one available in the 000 body size.

[pmcshane]

I have looked at most of the guitars that you have mentioned and like most have said, anyone would be a good choice if you felt like you connected with it.

 

There is the natural tendancy to promote the brand that one owns and I guess I fall into that as well somewhat reluctantly. My target budget for my first "good" guitar was $700-$800 and I looked at alot of Martins and a few Taylors and the 03 Larrivees. Since I purchased my Larrivee L-03R I continue to see if I can find a guitar that I like better and I have found a few that I would now consider, the problem is that they cost two to three times what I paid for my Larrivee. Specifically I like the Martin OM 21 which runs around $1800 new and the Taylor 714 cedar which is a few dollars more at least.

 

To summarize, it is very difficult to find a better guitar in this price range than the Larrivee O3 series.

 

Pat Mc

[MRscratch]

when i was shopping , it was gonna be a j-45 aor a taylor.

i ended up with w WM-00. i LOOOOOOVE this guitar, its go such a punch!, also in my experience , it IS a gibson, iy will retain its value, probably more that the larivee or the taylor!