How to not order a dud Martin?

[solitaire]

I'm in a bit of a moral dilemma. My next steel-string will be a Martin OM-21 but my local reseller doesn't carry that particular model. It's no problem for them to order one from the US, but how can I be sure I won't get a dud (ever so common with Martins)?

Can I incourage the reseller in some way to order a goodie? I dislike the thought of settling for what ever Martin choose to ship. Should it really be a 100% dud, there'd be 3 trans-Atlantic shipping costs instead of 1.

 

I don't wish to seem pretentious about it, but it's an instrument (with shipping and excise) worth SeK 22000:- or $ 3143:- at current exchange rate (the dollar has taken a plunge, so it might actually cut the price slightly). At any rate, paying this kind of money you'd really expect the instrument to deliver. Any suggestions?

 

Cheers!

[TaylorFishin']

Solitaire,

 

I'm not a Martin owner at this time but I've owned a few and played countless Martins. Rest assured the whole Martin "Dud" thing is blown completely out of proportion by those repeating what someone else has said.

 

I think its more of one or two "exceptional" guitars making it through the assembly line rather than the "duds" . Even that is totally based on the person who is playng the guitar at the time.

Your "dud" may be my "exceptional" sounding guitar.

 

My local dealer has probably 20 Martins hanging on the wall today. I can tell you for sure, There is not a single "dud" among them.

 

I wouldn't hesitate on ordering a new OM-21. I've never played a bad one. Some are set-up to my preference more than others but they have all sounded almost identical to my ear.

 

Scott

[woody b]

All of the Martin "duds" I've seen have been because of dead strings, not because of dud guitars.

[solitaire]

Oh, really ? I thought Martin duds were frequent occurance, like trees in a forrest.

 

I think the two of you might be right from this angle: Some people may actually think, that simply because it's a Martin it's impecably the best guitar of all. Never do the possibility enter their minds, that strings have an adverse effect on sound and there could really be an occassional dud out there. Once they run into one that doesn't meet their expectations of any reason, it's like they have doubts in God and they let the world know that.

 

On harmony-central reviews there is one of fourteen OM-21s that soundwise was rated a 3. The others got 9s and 10s all the way.

[JasmineTea]

Originally posted by solitaire Oh, really ? I thought Martin duds were frequent occurance, like trees in a forrest.

I'm one who's guilty crying "dud",however I must also say that I don't plan on buying anything BUT Martin, because after picking through them, I'm able to find exactly what I'm looking for in a guitar. The "Martin" sound is for me.

[JasmineTea]

I was at a nice shop recently with a great selection of Martins.30-35 guitars. I think I found one dud. It was a 00-18. I played all the OM's, not one dud.

[solitaire]

Originally posted by JasmineTea I'm one who's guilty crying "dud",however I must also say that I don't plan on buying anything BUT Martin, because after picking through them, I'm able to find exactly what I'm looking for in a guitar. The "Martin" sound is for me.

Originally posted by JasmineTea

I was at a nice shop recently with a great selection of Martins.30-35 guitars. I think I found one dud. It was a 00-18. I played all the OM's, not one dud. [/quote

 

Some will have it such it has to do with Martins cutting of the tonewood. Martin uses rather thin tonewoods, thus increasing the chance of dudness. It will seem like Martin has improved their expertudiledge in building instruments and consequently keeping the dud factor down.

That's re-assuring to know. I'm a hugh fan of the highly aclaimed Martin sound. I also have a soft spot for Gibbies (the best of two worlds?).

[54merk]

[/quote

Some will have it such it has to do with Martins cutting of the tonewood. Martin uses rather thin tonewoods, thus increasing the chance of dudness. It will seem like Martin has improved their expertudiledge in building instruments and consequently keeping the dud factor down.

 

 

Huh??? Thin tonewoods are GOOD! The best sounding guitars are built as lightly as possible. If anything, Martins are built too heavy, not too light! If you have access to Santa Cruz or Collings, Lowden, Brook, or other fine instruments in Sweden you will be amazed at how lightly these instruments are constructed.

 

I purchased my Martin D35 new in '75. I have also played Martins at large chain stores like Guitar Center and Sam Ash, and in small shops. Except for a couple guitars at Sam Ash which were unplayable, and the ones at GC with old strings, they were quite consistent in tone and playability. I have never played a bad OM21. If that's your dream, go for it. You will not be dissapointed.

 

Martin ships their guitars with plain Phoshor Bronzes which do not hold up well to sweaty hands. They also use awful Micarta (synthetic) saddles. Put on fresh strings, and replace the Micarta with a bone saddle and it won't be a dud anymore.

 

Wouldn't your store be purchasing through a distributor? If so the shipping costs would be included with the price, wouldn't they? Would not the distributor stand behind the product and replace it if you were not happy?

 

Oh well, what do I know? Not much!!!! US citizens don't have to deal with import details.

[Quake17]

Solitaire,

 

You quoted a price of $3,143 for an OM-21? If you fly to New York for a couple of days and shop at Mandolin Brothers, you could likely pick out whichever one you like, have a very nice time and still save money! You'd also have the warranty as the original owner since you purchased it in the US.

 

I've seen slightly used OM-21's around for less than a $1000.

 

If you follow eBay at all, you could find an OM-42 for about $2600 or so.

 

I have nothing against the 21 series, but it is the entry level of the standard series for rosewood, and you can get a lot more guitar for that type of money.

 

Best of luck,

 

Grant

[solitaire]

 

Originally posted by Quake17 Solitaire, You quoted a price of $3,143 for an OM-21? If you fly to New York for a couple of days and shop at Mandolin Brothers, you could likely pick out whichever one you like, have a very nice time and still save money! You'd also have the warranty as the original owner since you purchased it in the US. I've seen slightly used OM-21's around for less than a $1000. If you follow eBay at all, you could find an OM-42 for about $2600 or so. I have nothing against the 21 series, but it is the entry level of the standard series for rosewood, and you can get a lot more guitar for that type of money. Best of luck, Grant

 

 

I think you could buy a brand new OM-21 for $2400, at least that's according to Martins suggested retail pricelist. My retailer says I could reckon with the suggested price times nine. The exchange rate is around $1 per SeK 7.

 

I really wished there was a straight OM-28. The 000 comes with the 28-series features, but Martin stubornly keeps the OM at the level associated with 21-series. I've actually checked that out, and I believe the OM being the only remaining 21-series instrument in current production.

 

Yeah, maybe I should go over there. Even if I don't find a mint condition used one, buying a brand new one on site would be cheaper than ordering one through my reseller. I wouldn't turn down an OM-42 for that kind of money which would equal the price of a new on-stock entrylevel Standard Series.

[solitaire]

 

Originally posted by 54merk Huh??? Thin tonewoods are GOOD! The best sounding guitars are built as lightly as possible. If anything, Martins are built too heavy, not too light! If you have access to Santa Cruz or Collings, Lowden, Brook, or other fine instruments in Sweden you will be amazed at how lightly these instruments are constructed. I purchased my Martin D35 new in '75. I have also played Martins at large chain stores like Guitar Center and Sam Ash, and in small shops. Except for a couple guitars at Sam Ash which were unplayable, and the ones at GC with old strings, they were quite consistent in tone and playability. I have never played a bad OM21. If that's your dream, go for it. You will not be dissapointed. Martin ships their guitars with plain Phoshor Bronzes which do not hold up well to sweaty hands. They also use awful Micarta (synthetic) saddles. Put on fresh strings, and replace the Micarta with a bone saddle and it won't be a dud anymore. Wouldn't your store be purchasing through a distributor? If so the shipping costs would be included with the price, wouldn't they? Would not the distributor stand behind the product and replace it if you were not happy? Oh well, what do I know? Not much!!!! US citizens don't have to deal with import details.

 

 

The thicknes of tonewood is only hearsay on my part.

Actually, I don't think Martin does have a local distributor. I'm familiarised with the distributors of Gibson and Taylor but I've never heard that Martin should have one.

Didn't Martin reformulate the Micarta compound? I've heard it's the hardest synthetic saddles about, nearly as hard as bone but more consistant and hence transpond different frequencies better and more evenly than bone.

[Andrewrg]

Solitaire,just to put your mind at rest I have owned six Martins in the past and still have three,including an OM42. The only guitar I had an issue with was a OOO28EC and that was because I didnt like the shorter scale-purely a subjective observation. I bought a few mail order and apart from needing new strings and a good set up,all were fine instruments.Buy with confidence and enjoy your new guitar!

[solitaire]

Originally posted by Andrewrg Solitaire,just to put your mind at rest I have owned six Martins in the past and still have three,including an OM42. The only guitar I had an issue with was a OOO28EC and that was because I didnt like the shorter scale-purely a subjective observation. I bought a few mail order and apart from needing new strings and a good set up,all were fine instruments.Buy with confidence and enjoy your new guitar!

 

Cheers Andy! Could you just fill me in something: is that trans-Atlantic or domestic mail order? Either way, do you (or any-one else resident in the olde worlde) think it's money saved or money wasted should I decide ordering one from the States?

[riffmeister]

The best solution would be to come over to the US on a vacation of some sort, and make time to play geetars in a store which carries many, like Mandolin Bros in New York.

 

Buying sight-unseen is always going to be a risky proposition, especially with an acoustic instrument......there are just so many variables.....

[54merk]

 

Originally posted by solitaire I think you could buy a brand new OM-21 for $2400, at least that's according to Martins suggested retail pricelist. My retailer says I could reckon with the suggested price times nine. The exchange rate is around $1 per SeK 7. I really wished there was a straight OM-28. The 000 comes with the 28-series features, but Martin stubornly keeps the OM at the level associated with 21-series. I've actually checked that out, and I believe the OM being the only remaining 21-series instrument in current production. Yeah, maybe I should go over there. Even if I don't find a mint condition used one, buying a brand new one on site would be cheaper than ordering one through my reseller. I wouldn't turn down an OM-42 for that kind of money which would equal the price of a new on-stock entrylevel Standard Series.

 

 

First of all, Martins are typically discounted 35-40% off list. Retailers are not allowed to advertise below the MAP (Min Advertised Price) however they can sell below these prices. THe MAP for an OM21 is $1799, so with a list price of $2400, it can be purchased for less.

 

Next, Martin does offer an OM28, which is considered some sort of limited edition model. Elderly Instruments which is located in Michigan offers it as an "exlusive" in their Catalog for only $1880 (list price is $3130). This may be what you are looking for, an OM which looks like a D28 with a 1.75" nut. It is not in stock but could be ordered.

 

http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/OM28.htm

 

Finally, Micarta is a crappy material for saddles, no ifs ands or buts! When my the neck on my '75 D35 was reset at the Martin factory, they set it up with a Micarta saddle. It totally robbed the tone. I had the best luthier in the area set it up with a bone saddle and the tone returned. I think you are mixing up Micarta and TUSQ. TUSQ is an excellent synthetic material, IMHO, but Micarta is a whole other story. Martin uses them because they take less work than filing and fitting a bone saddle. I can see using them in a $500 guitar but not for their standard series.

 

Finally, if you are looking forward to a vacation in NYC, then you could order an OM-28 through Mandolin Brothers, and come over to pick it up. Another option is to have it shipped to you. Large dealers ship guitars all around the world on a routine basis. If you call or email them they can tell you how much it would cost. Not sure whether taxes would be added to import into Sweden, but I am certain that you will still be way ahead of what it will cost to purchase in Sweden. I have read other posts about people travelling to London to purchase US guitars, but you would be paying addtional costs because of the exchange rate and import duties.

 

If I were in your shoes I would contact Mandolin Brothers and Elderly instruments by email. They will be able to tell you exactly cost, availability, and they could replace the saddle before they ship. I would have no reservations whatsoever about ordering sight unseen from either of these two dealers.

[solitaire]

 

Originally posted by 54merk First of all, Martins are typically discounted 35-40% off list. Retailers are not allowed to advertise below the MAP (Min Advertised Price) however they can sell below these prices. THe MAP for an OM21 is $1799, so with a list price of $2400, it can be purchased for less. Next, Martin does offer an OM28, which is considered some sort of limited edition model. Elderly Instruments which is located in Michigan offers it as an "exlusive" in their Catalog for only $1880 (list price is $3130). This may be what you are looking for, an OM which looks like a D28 with a 1.75" nut. It is not in stock but could be ordered. http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/OM28.htm Finally, Micarta is a crappy material for saddles, no ifs ands or buts! When my the neck on my '75 D35 was reset at the Martin factory, they set it up with a Micarta saddle. It totally robbed the tone. I had the best luthier in the area set it up with a bone saddle and the tone returned. I think you are mixing up Micarta and TUSQ. TUSQ is an excellent synthetic material, IMHO, but Micarta is a whole other story. Martin uses them because they take less work than filing and fitting a bone saddle. I can see using them in a $500 guitar but not for their standard series. Finally, if you are looking forward to a vacation in NYC, then you could order an OM-28 through Mandolin Brothers, and come over to pick it up. Another option is to have it shipped to you. Large dealers ship guitars all around the world on a routine basis. If you call or email them they can tell you how much it would cost. Not sure whether taxes would be added to import into Sweden, but I am certain that you will still be way ahead of what it will cost to purchase in Sweden. I have read other posts about people travelling to London to purchase US guitars, but you would be paying addtional costs because of the exchange rate and import duties. If I were in your shoes I would contact Mandolin Brothers and Elderly instruments by email. They will be able to tell you exactly cost, availability, and they could replace the saddle before they ship. I would have no reservations whatsoever about ordering sight unseen from either of these two dealers.

 

 

I might be mixing things up, but I can bet vital parts of my anatomy that the Martin saddles had an upgrade a few years back. That's been on this forum.

Right, so Elderly have them made especially.

Sweden and the UK are now part of the EU so buying an instrument in the UK will add no extra duties (the only good thing about the union), only shipping. I go there every once or twice ayear, but the pound is way over rated! I will check it up though.

I wouldn't mind a vacation in the US. Would bee nice to have seen the Martin plant with my own eyes.

[riffmeister]

Originally posted by solitaire ......I wouldn't mind a vacation in the US. Would bee nice to have seen the Martin plant with my own eyes.

 

 

I live close to Nazareth. If you come to the US, let me know. After you visit the Martin factory, come visit me and see what Collings guitars are like. Much nicer than Martin, IMO.

[54merk]

Originally posted by riffmeister I live close to Nazareth. If you come to the US, let me know. After you visit the Martin factory, come visit me and see what Collings guitars are like. Much nicer than Martin, IMO.

 

+1

 

Solitaire,

Nothing wrong with Martins. They are fine large factory produced guitars. Smaller manufacturers such as Collings and Santa Cruz, to name just two, as well as private builders, are able to provide more indivualized attention to detail when building their guitars. Everything for a price, however. Once you get past the $2000 US threshold, guitars such as the Santa Cruz OMPW become very appealing. Used Collings can also be had for that price.

 

I am well aware that intra EU exports are immune from duties. My point was that any US guitar imported in the UK would be subject to fairly hefty tariffs.

 

Lastly, the OM28 can be ordered from Martin through any dealer.

[solitaire]

Originally posted by riffmeister I live close to Nazareth. If you come to the US, let me know. After you visit the Martin factory, come visit me and see what Collings guitars are like. Much nicer than Martin, IMO.

 

Cheers, Riffmeister! I could use the company of some-one roadwise. No offence to Collings, I'm sure they make good instruments, it's just that I've never played one. Perhaps the opportunity will present it self. Never even seen one on the European market, but I'd love to try one.

[solitaire]

 

Originally posted by 54merk +1 Solitaire, Nothing wrong with Martins. They are fine large factory produced guitars. Smaller manufacturers such as Collings and Santa Cruz, to name just two, as well as private builders, are able to provide more indivualized attention to detail when building their guitars. Everything for a price, however. Once you get past the $2000 US threshold, guitars such as the Santa Cruz OMPW become very appealing. Used Collings can also be had for that price. I am well aware that intra EU exports are immune from duties. My point was that any US guitar imported in the UK would be subject to fairly hefty tariffs. Lastly, the OM28 can be ordered from Martin through any dealer.

 

As above, instruments of smaller US manufacturers are rare breeds in Europe. Truely a pity, as I'm sure they're in par or even better sounding/ playing than those of the larger brands.

 

Yes, once they hit EU soil they are subject to duties. I couldn't say the exact figure or percentage but it should be the same through-out. It therefore amazes me London dealers could cut the prices that much. Large sales figures?

 

Can't get it into my head that Martin persists in offering the OM-28 as a sideorder only. How could I've known it existed if I hadn't asked you guys or visited a major US dealer? It really belongs to the Standard Series and should be listed on the Martin homepage, next to or instead of the OM-21.

[tapeman1]

A buddy of mine told me that when he ordered his Martin ( I think it's a 000-21) He paid a $50 fee to have one of the Martin luthiers go out to the warehouse and pick the best one out of seven 000-21's.

[54merk]

The US does not have a lock on fine guitars.

 

I would think that Lowdens and the German Lakewoods would be seen in Sweden? Also Brook and Fylde, two other fine European brands. I suppose you may have to travel to London to play these.

 

Martin has not really "gotten it" yet that smaller bodied guitars have become more popular. No doubt this is due to the popularity of fingerstyle players as well as improvements to live amplification which allow smaller guitars to be heard perfectly fine in live performances. They are still selling mostly Dreadnaughts, even though the most popular Taylor body style is the smaller x14 size, not the Dread x10. You would think an OM version of an icon like the D28 would be a stock instrument. But what do we know?

If you take a trip to the US and spend a day or two at Mandolin Brothers you will probably walk out with something other than a Martin!

[54merk]

Originally posted by tapeman1 A buddy of mine told me that when he ordered his Martin ( I think it's a 000-21) He paid a $50 fee to have one of the Martin luthiers go out to the warehouse and pick the best one out of seven 000-21's.

 

Sounds like a fish tale to me!

 

Martin does not sell direct to the public. They are sold through dealers. Payment would've been made to the dealer. If this was the case your friend was ripped off!

 

[nylon rock]

Solitaire, I just purchased my first steel string acoustic from Mandolin Bros. on Friday. That was the day that the three day holding period became final.

 

The guitar is an OM-21 Custom. Very nice, but I have to learn how to get the most out of a steel string since all of my experience is nylon string. (Next guitar I'll buy will be a Lowden S25J from their as yet nonexistent custom shop).

 

The OM-21 Custom that I got has incredible upgrade looks: Engelmann Premium top, tortoise binding but with BWB on the top connecting the Engelmann to the tortoise, so that it has a look of a cross between a OOO-28 and a OM-21. The guitar came from the Custom Shop at Martin and they really put some nice work into the instrument. Cutaway, Bone nut and saddle, Open Butterbean tuners in nickel, tortoise heel cap, and I also upgraded to the Geib 533 case, which is so much more close fitting and vintage looking than the 630 case. The whole package is just beautiful! Including shipping, and the case upgrade, out the door it was $2333. A lot of money for an OM-21, but I rationalized all the upgrades against what most OM-21's go for, which is maybe a slight, if possible, discount off of the current $1799 price.

 

Mandolin Bros. will be getting more of these, one each quarter, so you could ask them to take some pictures of the next one they get, if you're willing to wait that long.

 

Can reach up to the 20th fret, no problem, with the cutaway.

 

The guitar is still opening up and so is fairly bright sounding, though I can get a feel for it's character at its sweet spot, which currently is around the 10th to 12th frets.

 

To me, it sounds like all Martin's I've played. Nothing incredibly special, though it is loud. I'm actually surprized at the volume I can get out of it. Some other posts have mentioned that the OM-21 tends to break up when played hard, as though you would tend to overdrive the top scalloped bracing. I am not finding this to be the case. And the guitar has no buzz notes and I will not mess around trying to get the action down a hair. That just invites buzzing as the seasons change.

 

I had been wanting a Goodall, but I'm glad I settled for this one. Saved myself at least $2000, and I'm just not that good a player to warrant much more in price.

 

On the third fret and open C chord, the sound is identical to the way Neil Young sounds on Powderfinger. Maybe that's the Martin sound.

 

Anyway, I will say one thing about getting a Martin, you are buying 171 years of experience and innovation that no one else can brag about. For this reason, you'll always feel that you have, like, Coca Cola as compared to Pepsi. It's the real thing.

[solitaire]

Originally posted by 54merk The US does not have a lock on fine guitars. I would think that Lowdens and the German Lakewoods would be seen in Sweden? Also Brook and Fylde, two other fine European brands. I suppose you may have to travel to London to play these. Martin has not really "gotten it" yet that smaller bodied guitars have become more popular. No doubt this is due to the popularity of fingerstyle players as well as improvements to live amplification which allow smaller guitars to be heard perfectly fine in live performances. They are still selling mostly Dreadnaughts, even though the most popular Taylor body style is the smaller x14 size, not the Dread x10. You would think an OM version of an icon like the D28 would be a stock instrument. But what do we know? If you take a trip to the US and spend a day or two at Mandolin Brothers you will probably walk out with something other than a Martin!

The dealer in Stockholm I use to frequent does have one Lowden model and an aray of Avalons (they produce eachothers models, same company?). The other brands are available in some models elsewhere. In all: European quality instruments are generally harder to come by than for example Martins, Gibsons, Taylors, Guilds and Tacomas. Low demand for European instruments ( )

My reaction on the OM-28 is mainly due to the die-hard existence of the OM-21. Why even bother with the 21-series? The D-21 was discontinued ages ago, simply because the customers prefered the D-28 over the D-21 and the difference in price wasn't reason enough to keep producing it. Why then isn't the OM-28 Standard Series - the same variables would apply here too, wouldn't they?