UV Cured Finishes a la Taylor

[digitalsnipe]

I just got off the Taylor website. While there I read about their ultra-violet cured polyester resin finishes. I use polyester resins in my line of work and that stuff stinks to high heaven. It also mars easily. So, my question is out to those who have experience with Taylors with that finish. How's it hold up? Any smelly outgassing fumes? Taylor describes it as the toughest finish their R&D people have experienced to-date. If you have experience with other finishes, does it inhibit the sound to any noticable degree? I know that nitro is the preferred finish of most high end makes but Taylor says that the UV cured process allows them to short circuit the curing process allowing them quicker times, start-to-finish, with each guitar. This UV process is public domain so why does Taylor subscribe to it while others (Martin, et al) go the distance with the better sound coefficient nitro finish?

[bjorn-fjord]

One reason could be that nitro was banned in California under their environmental protection laws. No guitars made in California can legally be finished with Nitrocellulose lacquer.

[egordon99]

Really?

Santa Cruz Guitar Company

From that link -

All Santa Cruz Guitar Company instruments include:

Lifetime Warranty

[shecky]

Some thoughts:

 

Perhaps Taylor uses different stuff than what you're familiar with.

 

Taylor finishes seems at least as durable as any nitrocellulose lacquer. My own Taylor (and the dozens carried by the music store around the block of my house) doesn't seem to offgas any noticable fumes.

 

"Better sound coefficient"?

 

There's lots of speculation about sonic differences between lacquer vs (put more modern high tech finish here). This is all speculation and very difficult to verify in controlled circumstances.

 

Nitrocellulose lacquer wasn't really adopted because it's superior sound qualities. It was adopted because it was a quick and relatively easy finish to apply to factory made guitars (which is what Martin guitars are). It sprays on easily and dries fast. Had ultra-violet cured polyester resin been available in the early 20th century, it would have been the standard that nitrocellulose is considered today.

 

Why does Martin still use Lacquer? Perhaps because it's a more "traditional" selling point, helping stand out against competitors? In contrast, Taylor made a name largely by being innovative and non-traditional.

 

I don't know the exact laws in CA. It's possible that restrictions may be regional, related to volume of use, offset by taxes and fees, and so on. Nitrocellulose lacquer isn't banned, at least for the average guy. I can go to the local hardware store here in L.A. and buy the stuff by the gallon.

[bjorn-fjord]

Hmmm. I stand corrected. Convential wisdom in these parts is that nitro was completely banned in CA. I guess I should rely more on unconventional wisdom. I did hear a specific example of how Fender had to stop using nitro because of state environmental regulations but I guess that could be BS too.

[guitarcapo]

I love everything about Taylors except for their "dipped in plastic" finish. I've even gone as far as to ask the Taylor sales rep if they'd sell one unfinished so that I could have it done in nitro.

They said they would never put their name on an unfinished guitar.

 

It's not the sound. It's the fact that it feels slick and plasticky. It won't crystallize and improve over time like nitro. It's also impossible to repair dings and scratches. Forget about ever refinishing one.

 

Personally I'd like to send them MY Brazilian Rosewood...have them make it to my specs, and then have it French polish finished.

 

I know I could just go to a private luthier but I like the neck joint they've created and the Expression system.

[54merk]

There are advantages and disadvantages with any finish. French polish is the most difficult to apply, according to Frank Ford. Nitrocellulose is the accepted "traditional" method favored by Martin, Collings, Santa Cruz, and most individual luthiers. Catalyzed polymer is the quickest for mass production. Asian guitars, Ovations, and Taylors. The drawback is that it's often applied in a heavy coat and is difficult to repair. Read Frank's article for yourself:

 

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenMaint/FinishIntro/finishintro.html

[digitalsnipe]

I know the finish Taylor is using. Wood flooring manufacturers use it mixed with ceramic to create their 20 year normal wear-through warranties on engineered planks. I put some of the stuff down in my house and it is indeed tough. But, like guitarcapo mentions, its look and feel in kinda like those vinyl enclosures people used to encase their upholstered furniture in. Many people like that highly polished look so the argument really is mute from the aesthetic view-point.

 

Thanks 54merk. I'll check it out.

[guitarcapo]

 

Nitrocellulose is the accepted "traditional" method favored by Martin, Collings, Santa Cruz, and most individual luthiers.

 

 

Martins and Gibsons, like most violins, were finished in spirit varnish up until the 1920's . Nitro came on the scene about the same time as spray finishing as a means to avoid the labor intensive spirit varnishing (French polishing) It's a similar situation as to the use of hide glue. More difficult to work with, but some people feel it's worth the effort to use.

 

Now violins in the 1700's, including the famous Stradivarius, Guaneri etc...were finished in oil. Took weeks to dry. They were also treated with silica (volcanic ash solution) as a means to fight insects and wood rot...So which is considered "traditional is pretty much up in the air.

[labjr]

Suposedly, Taylor's finish goes on thinner than multiple coats of nitro. At least that's what they claim. Looks pretty thick though.

 

Personally, I feel that Taylor's literature is a lot of BS. Like the way they try to save trees by using a five piece neck. That's laughable.