Acoustic with Cutaway

[redpoint]

Hi, I've been playing a few months on a classical guitar, but I'm interested in obtaining a steel-string because I like the sound. I'm trying to decide on cutaway vs. not cutaway - can people give me examples of songs that a cutaway makes easier to play?

 

What are some beginner (under $400) guitars that are cutaway? I've looked, and usually the ones that are cutaway are acoustic/electric. Is this an issue?

 

Thanks!

[TheBlueGuy]

Personally, I can hear the difference between cutaway guitars and non-cutaways and I prefer the non-cutaways. I don't find a need to venture beyond the 17th fret of an acoustic guitar anyway. And when they join at the 14th fret I can reach that far without too much trouble.

[B. Adams]

I can tell you from experience that it's difficult to find an acoustic with a cutaway, that doesn't have electronics. I think guitar makers assume that anyone that want a steel string acoustic with a cutaway is going to be playing through a PA, and will therefore want extremely cheap electronics. I don't know why they assume that, but they seem to. And with almost all the cheaper guitars being built oversees, it's not like you can really custom order them.

 

The exceptions I have found to this are mostly the expensive handbuilt American guitars, like Breedlove and Wechter and similar. Although, I have found that Wechter's import line, Maple Lake I think, you can get a cutaway without electronics, without too much of a wait either. That would be my best suggestion. I've played a couple, and they were pretty decent for the price, which I think was right around $200 or $250 or something.

 

Hopefully that helps.

[Jeremy Skrenes]

I just picked up a Rogue herringbone a/e cutaway, and for the $130 it set me back it sounds fantastic. Some reviewers have compared it to really high end guitars, but it doesn't stack up that high. But it does sound competetive with the under $500 range of guitars.

 

J

[Tralfaz]

Seagull makes a non-electric cutaway in your price range (if you shop around)... the S6+ CW. Pretty decent guitar, with a solid cedar top.

 

I'm sure there must be others out there as well, but none that I've actually played myself.

 

The cheaper a/e guitars I've played have all been kind of junky, both in the build-quality and the electronics.

[nylon rock]

I buy only guitars with cutaways. But I am into the music of Jerry Garcia almost exclusively.

 

Without the ease of reach way up high, things would fall apart in no time. To emulate his style on acoustic, that is playing his electric style music adapted to an acoustic guitar, I've found that I have to go to the B string way up there to get some punch to the notes that the E string would wither with. His stuff sounds a little beefier if I can get it done up higher.

 

Then too, Garcia's style was very integrated, in tight low string to high string drifts, rather than up and down the neck. If I try for some speed up and down the neck, I'll stumble a lot. Better to stay in tight areas and integrate the strings with each other.

 

I grew up with a guitar that was a twelve fretter, and had constant problems. A fourteen fretter gets around most of them. But on the coolest leads, I'm constantly on the B string between the 15th and 17th, going over to the E string and wandering up to the 20th for the peak notes. If things are awkward there, you'll never get good at the "wail" sound technique. (which I have yet to master) That is where you slide the notes and pop them off way up high in rapid succession so that it becomes a blend of sound. Garcia did it like no other, and so it is a phenomena I strive to attain. Hard to learn. But songs like Bertha, Playing in the Band, Not Fade Away/Goin' Down the Road, Cumberland Blues, etc. all need ease of reach up high and confidence when playing there. You just won't get that without a cutaway.

 

A lot of guitar players definitely do not need a cutaway. They only really matter if you are trying to play electric guitar style music on an acoustic guitar. There you go, the question you need to ask yourself is are you trying to play electric on an acoustic?

[redpoint]

nylon rock, I think the answer is really that I'm not really planning on buying multiple guitars (at least for a few years), so I'm kind of looking for a one-size fits all kind of option.

 

The cheapest price I could find on a S6+CW without electronics is $450, and with electronics I think it's $550, without a hard case. Maybe Ebay might have a deal on the Seagull cutaways if I wait long enough.

 

The other ones I've looked at include the Alvarez RD8C, RD20SC, Washburn D10SCE, and on the low end, the Jasmine ES45C, and the Rogue

[UGB]

You can get a cutaway Art & Lutherie w/o electronics for under $300 new.

[Jerry NT]

I'll make a recomendation here. Don't get a dreadnaught cutaway. Go after either an auditorium cutaway or a jumbo. (Then there are the mini-jumbos also.)

If you are going to play the thing non-amplified you'll appreciate the more balanced sound of these types. When you get up into the higher frets there will be a well defined difference.

Also, if you can find one in your price range, I would go for a solid top instrument, for the same reason.

I played a Kona mini-jumbo once and thought it sounded decent. It goes for less than $300 new. Their dreadnaughts, however, are dreadful.

[redpoint]

The closest Art and Lutherie guitar dealer is 60 miles away - are there any reputable online places that sell them?

 

I think all the cutaways I've mentioned above are dreadnaughts. Besides Kona, what other brands are there?

 

Thanks!

[Jerry NT]

I don't have much info to give you in this price range. I can tell you to go with what others have indicated. Seagull has a good rep, as does Blueridge. Most guitars in this range are made by Samick, whatever the name on the headstock.

I understand that the Masterbuilt Squiers are supposed to be good guitars for the money.

Used can net you a good deal, if you can find someone reputable.

 

UGB, on this site, sells a couple of lines of guitars in this range. He seems like a decent person.

 

 

Oh, per songs that a cutaway makes easier, at your stage of learning, I doubt that you need a cutaway. I will state that you should not get one. You can get a much better guitar for the money without it.

[redpoint]

Thanks for the advice, Jerry. In that case, is there any advantage in buying a new guitar at all in terms of learning how to play? I already have a 6-string classical guitar.

 

As far as I can tell the difference is the thinner neck, 2 more frets, and the sound (which would be neat). And $200-$400 dollars

[nylon rock]

If your classical is a nice sounding guitar, use it; they are much more fun than a steel string. Most never know this because they consider nylon string guitars to be toys, and have never owned one.

 

I have two primary guitars: A nylon string Yamaha CGX-171CC (I think) and a Martin OM-21 Custom Cutaway. (Also have a Lowden Custom Nylon String Jazz that's supposed to be shipping in September. (a small fortune)) Need I say more on where I'm willing to spend money on guitars. I have a couple of others but never use them. A travel guitar and an old Ibanez electric which I may give away for a tax break to some charity. (if I can find one)

 

I can't overstate the pleasure I get from a nylon string guitar. Just when I think it doesn't compare to my Martin, I'll get up the next morning and play it in the still of the morning and it sounds so incredible rich and soulful. It's the bending of the notes and the richness of the treble strings that does it.

 

The other morning had the most incredible experience with it. The high E string was slightly sharped and it added this AMAZING edge to the whole sound. Like some kind of micro reverb. Always knew that slightly out of tune guitars can get better sounding once in a while for unknown reasons, but this reaffirmed that forgotten belief. Blew me away! It was eerie sounding and I couldn't put it down, yet I had to get to work!

[UGB]

I've been playing almost 30 years but I just had my first Classical lesson yesterday. It's a totally different instrument. Each guitar is unique, that is, electric, steel string acoustic, and nylon acoustic. They are played differently and each has a variety of 'niche' instruments within it's own group to facilitate a multitude of playing situations.

 

I am an Art & Lutherie dealer as well as Walden, Blueridge, Washburn, Cort, and some others. I don't stock a cutaway because my business is geared towards the first time guitar purchaser and most don't opt for a cutaway. But, I can get anything any of these companies offer and I quite often order higher end models for other customers, the vast majority of them being cyber customers.

 

I own a cutaway acoustic/electric but I don't use the cutaway. Coming from an electric background I thought I'd have to have it, but I don't. All of my other acoustics are 'normal' although I have a collection of various body sizes and materials for a variety of tones and playing conditions. There are many choices of fine instruments by a variety of makers in this price range. I'd also consider how you would use it. I love my Seagull S6+Folk; it's about the perfect guitar to sit and play by myself, but, when I want to jam w/other guys, they typically all have big, loud, dreadnoughts and I get drowned out. So I have a Walden G570 that's still very comfortable to play and can compete w/those dreads. If I could only have one steel string under $300 it'd be that one.

[Jerry NT]

Originally posted by redpoint Thanks for the advice, Jerry. In that case, is there any advantage in buying a new guitar at all in terms of learning how to play? I already have a 6-string classical guitar. As far as I can tell the difference is the thinner neck, 2 more frets, and the sound (which would be neat). And $200-$400 dollars

 

There are many factors to consider. As noted by NR, there is a difference in sound. Do you want it to ring or do you want the mellow sound of the nylon?

What type of music do you want to play? Dreadnaughts are good for chording. They are the instrument of choice for Bluegrass and rock rhythm. They are heavy on the bass end. Auditoriums are better for fingerstyle playing. (Generalities, you can play fingerstyle on dreadnaughts and rhythm on an auditorium.)

Nylon strings are also easier on your fingers. But, the thinner neck is easier for making certain chords.

If you have a teacher, ask his opinion. If your guitar is holding you back from doing what you want to do, get another. If it is a cheap "beginner" level guitar, I definitely recommend a better one. So many of the so called beginner guitars should be called toys instead of real instruments.

A decent guitar, with a good professional setup, will improve your playing. Make sure whoever you buy it from sets it up properly.

[redpoint]

My guitar is actually a "Granada" from 1980 or something. The local guitar shop told me it was quite cheap at the time but now that its 25 years old, it sounds quite nice.

 

At present I'm practicing both styles, but without a teacher. The guitar came with a very old book on classical guitar by Christopher Parkening that I'm working through. I also own a modern one that teaches chords right away.

 

I feel a little bad about using a pick on the classical guitar (still no scratches as I'm trying to be careful) so I'll look at the steel strings everyone suggests - I do like both kinds of sounds.

 

I would like to jam with my friends, who have an Alvarez RD20SC and a Ovation CC057. So one is a dread, but the other is not.

[min7b5]

I personally hear no difference in tone from like models with and without cutaway. The few times that I thought I did I thought they sounded louder, perhaps more energy goes to the lower bout? For single notes high up I feel like there

[Jerry NT]

 

Originally posted by redpoint My guitar is actually a "Granada" from 1980 or something. The local guitar shop told me it was quite cheap at the time but now that its 25 years old, it sounds quite nice. I would like to jam with my friends, who have an Alvarez RD20SC and a Ovation CC057. So one is a dread, but the other is not.

 

 

If you want to be heard above them you will need a steel string. I am not familiar with the Walden G570 that UGB mentions but I do know that Ovations are loud and the RD20SC is a dreadnaught and should also be fairly loud also.

Granadas, if I remember right, were not particularly great guitars. But if it frets okay and does what you need, then keep it. Some day you will probably outgrow it.

[rh2d]

I wouldn't buy a cutaway at this stage in your learning because you just don't need it. I've been playing many years and still don't use a cutaway. I remember several years ago some friends decided to put on a show at one of the office parties. My guitar part was a fill part played at the 12th and above. Now you can't do that without a cutaway so I borrowed a friends Ovation. If I had it to do over I would not have played it up there but come down to around the 8th fret and done the same thing. We were in "C". That's the only time I ever though I needed a cutaway.

[nylon rock]

redpoint, all you need is a forteen fretter. You really can get so much done with this. And like others have said, if the original artist had done it up on very high positions, you can always shift it to lower positions.

 

The difference of style is found when a rolling of notes can be done solely with the first and third fingers on a high position versus needing the first, second, third, and fourth fingers for a lower position, because when you get to the B string, the second finger picks up the note rolls, and then it would be the second and fourth fingers keeping the notes a whole tone apart.

 

There is an advantage of doing the rolls at a lower position that offsets the lack of ease at the higher position, and that is that the unique tone of your guitar is brought out more when playing in lower positions.

 

I have found most rolls that matter occur at the 12th and 14th frets, and lower, so you still have it in your favor.

 

Get a non cutaway. You'll always appreciate the beautiful symmetry of your first steel string. When, and if your playing gets to the point where you often wish you had a cutaway, then will be the time to search one out. That could be never.

[redpoint]

Thanks for everyone's advice. This makes it a bit easier to choose because it looks like there's a lot of solid-top acoustics that are $200 or so.

 

I'll start looking around at the usual suspects.

[Johny]

Well you mentionned the alvarez RD20SC... I currently own this model in black... and I really am satisfied.

Great playability... it's the kind of guitar you don't want to put down. But in the other hand, it can't be as rich as a more expansive non-cutaway guitar... Give it a try... after all it's the only way to buy a guitar.

[KATMAN]

I might be the oddball here,but have you considered buying used? I bought a Takamine all wood "G" series for $300,it has a cutaway all the way to the 22nd fret,and it's a pretty loud guitar unplugged. I just wanted to give you a second option.

[redpoint]

I have actually thought about buying used. That would probably be ideal for me, I think. I've got leads on a 4 year old Seagull S6+ Cedar for ~ $150, a newish Ibanez AW100 for $100, and a newish Seagull S6+ Cedar for $300 with hard case. All are supposed to be in reasonable condition.

 

I'm a little concerned that the neck width will be wide on a Seagull. My classical's neck is 2 inches and I think a Seagull is 1.8.

[UGB]

I'd snag either Seagull before the Ibanez. Those are great prices.