12 string help

[sonik]

So I have decided to purchase a 12 string and would like some input on my choices.

 

 

I've narrowed it down to these two so far.

 

 

Takamine EG523C-12

 

http://www.takamine.com/?fa=detail&mid=742&sid=69

 

 

Alvarez AJ60SC-12

 

http://www.alvarezgtr.com/productpage.htm?CatID=38&ItemID=78

 

 

I can get either one new for just under 600$ So price is very similar.

 

 

I have played the tak a few times and like it. It seems a bit stiff but im a 12 string noobie. Have never even seen an alvarez but have heard good things so figured I would consider it.

 

 

So what do you guys think?

 

600$ is really about as high as I would like to go but I would consider other options. And yes I know everybody will say look for a nicer used guitar.

 

Thanks!

 

[54merk]

I have never played either of these guitars but I did click on your links and the specs seem to be rather similar, solid top and laminate back and sides. I am not a big fan of on-board electronics since these can be added later without an ugly preamp built into the side but that's just my pesonal opinion. $600 for a cutaway with electronics is really not much money at all, so you are essentially gettting an entry level 12 string with these options added. I would not be too surprised if these instruments were made in the same Asian factory. Check the country of manufacture. Go with the one which sounds best to you. BTW, a properly setup 12 string should really be no stiffer than a 6 string. Sounds like the Tak needs some work to lower the action, and your dealer should do this free of charge. Of course, a used Guild 212 model 12 string can be had for this price, without the cutaway and electronics, but it sounds like you do not want to buy used.

[Bitt81]

Washburn makes a jumbo maple body 12 that might be a bit over $600 that I have played. Very nice. I don't think it's a cutaway but I believe there are electronics. I'm not sure how much you would take advantage of the cutaway feature. I think they call it the Cumberland model. It's worth a look.

[mrlucky7]

I know that a lot of people on this forum will tell you Guild builds the best 12 string guitars....that has got to mean something ! You can always look in the used market but 600$ might be tight.

 

I myself just bought a 12 string. I did not look at the Guilds because they were over my budget. I got a Norman B18-12 solid cedar top and am very pleased with it. Take a look at the Norman/Seagull/Simon & Patrick from the Godin folks. They make great guitars at a decent price. I have tried the Takamine but IMO the Norman had a way better sound. If the one you tried felt stiff to you...stay away from it. A 12 should feel just as comfy as a 6 string. I have not seen the Alvarez.

 

Good luck in your shopping !

[valleyguy]

I've played a lot of 12 strings and own a 1970s era Tak Martin copy, which I bought used for $350.

 

Except for a very high end Taylor I once played, most if not all 12 strings will not be as "comfy" or easy to play as a 6 string (you're pressing on 12 strings, not 6). This is particularly true of the lower end 12 strings. It's like electrics are generally easier to finger and play than acoustics. That's why a lot of people capo the 2nd fret and tune down, or just play with a capo.

 

That said, it won't take you long to get up to speed playing the 12 string. Go for it, I just love the jangly sound they put out. If you played the Tak and are happy with the sound, buy it. They're well know for their electronics, just look at all the people that use them to record.

[Tony Burns]

If you can find an old Yamaha 12 string from the 70's thats been well loved - and if your real lucky you may find a used Guild for the money-- dont think much of the takamine and not too thrilled about the alvarez either, thou in a pinch I might settle for the Alvarez. it also seems by the look of the pictures your looking for something with a pickup and controls - a cheap and good alternate solution might be an Old Ovation 12 string - very strong acoustic Electrics and not a bad acoustic by themselves.

[texas twelve]

I have to go with a used Guild. If you look on ebay, sometimes they go for less than $500. I have one @83, and even though I tend to play my Seagul S6 more, I can't seem to let it go. I have played other 12's that were easier to play, and others that even sounded rather good, but nothing is like the mellow, deep, sweetness of a Guilt 12 string. I would sell you mine, but I can't part with it.

 

By the way, many people will tell you that many 12 strings self destruct in 5-8 years. Maybe some cheapies, but mine is like an old timex watch, ya know, "takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'."

 

Good luck in your search. On some songs you just can't beat a 12 string.

[othello8]

Buy a Guild, preferably an older one. I own a '72 F-312, and I've never heard a better 12. I love the new Taylor 354-CE, though, and when funds allow, I'll get it, too.

[jmsteffen]

I agree that the Guild's are worthwhile... really better than they are given credit for... probably because they are not too fancy looking.

 

Guild 12's are used by a lot of professional musicians because of their durability and how well they stay in tune. Unlike most (or all) other 12's, they have double (2) truss rods in the neck. This gives them a great deal of stability.

 

By the way, tuning a 12-string that constantly goes out of tune can be a real pain. I had a Martin once (that cost considerably more than my Guild) that I sold for this reason. Also, despite the name brand, it just didn't sound as good as the Guild... which was a surprise to me at the time.

 

I just looked on e-bay and there are several Guild 12's there now for quite a bit less than your $600 budget. This is really a bargain for a made in the USA guitar, IMO.

 

Good luck with your search.

[LeGreatOne]

I don't know if you can find one for $600, but I'd like to plug the 12 string that I have. It's a Taylor 355, a BIG 12 string with very nice action and a great balanced tone. especially using Martin silk & steel strings. Martin Marquis are good too, but the silk & steel have more depth and play easier.

[blackpig]

Try and get a play of an Ovation deep bodied 12 string from the seventies or eighties. I've played a couple of these and have been mightily impressed with theer low action and playability. They have weird slotted pegheads like a nylon strung guitar.

[AndyDrew]

The Takamine looks nicer IMO so get that.

 

Personally, I don't mind electrics on the side of a guitar. At least then you have everything at your fingertips, and dont have to worry about getting stuff put in later. Whatever guitar you get I'm gonna be jealous

[t60 fan]

A Pastor friend of mine has a Taylor 354-CE Ltd that has maple B/S. I love that thing - plays and sounds great. I'd like to play a Larrivee L03-12. Gotta' imagine that would be a good one, too, as I love the 6 string versions.

[rockfan]

I have a Takamine acoustic with a preamp. I bought it for its full sound. Friends enjoy it so much, they ask me to bring to practice so they can play it.

 

The Takamine 12-string I've played in shops sound pretty good.

I've never played an Alvarez since shops in my area don't carry them.

[solitaire]

 

Originally posted by othello8 Buy a Guild, preferably an older one. I own a '72 F-312, and I've never heard a better 12. I love the new Taylor 354-CE, though, and when funds allow, I'll get it, too.

 

I'm sorry If I'll venture deeper along the Guild trail, but I agree fully on previous repliers. I got a '82 (thick topped) Dreadnought size D-212 my-self and if you're into 12-string Dreads this could be worth looking into. The arched back on these project mindblowing sound volumes. Didn't Tom Petty or somebody play one of these on the George Harrison tribute concert?

 

Another thing about Guilds: They boast a twin truss-rod system, i.e. the neck won't warp unless you want it to.

 

Most 12ers are bright and thinsounding guits, whereas with the Guild there's a mellow complexity. In this respect they sound huger than 12-strings of most other brands.

 

Bought mine used, with a repaired headstock, a crack in the top, checks around bridge and pickguard and the usually suspected nags and dings for SeK 10000, which would equal $750 - 800 with added VAT and shipping... hm... I bet these could be in the neighbourhood of $600 or even less given this condition.

[solitaire]

What about this Jumbo size one? http://cgi.ebay.com/Guild-JF-30-12-String-FLAMEY-Acost-Elect-Westerly-USA_W0QQitemZ7344473557QQcategoryZ2385QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Or this one (much like mine except for the top species) http://cgi.ebay.com/Guild-D4-12NT-Guild-12-String-Acoustic-Guitar-w-OHSC-NR_W0QQitemZ7343854081QQcategoryZ2385QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here's one of the same series as mine http://cgi.ebay.com/Guild-D212-12-string-Guitar-Vintage-early-80-s_W0QQitemZ7344049189QQcategoryZ2385QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Yet another one. Same finnish as mine http://cgi.ebay.com/1985-Guild-12-String-Guitar-D212-SB-W-Case-Sunburst_W0QQitemZ7344072717QQcategoryZ2385QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Sometimes in the 80's they changed the designition from 212 to 25-12, much later than 81 though http://cgi.ebay.com/Guild-Guitar-D25-12-12-String-Dreadnought-W-pickup_W0QQitemZ7344484559QQcategoryZ2385QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hope the links to eBay works now.

[sonik]

Sorry man none of the ebay links worked. As of 6:45 EST anyway.

 

 

So consensus is buy a used guild it seems!

 

I have looked at some used guilds and what not, but they still tend to be out of my price range.

Well I will look around some more, i'm not in a huge rush.

 

[BlackHatMike]

I would buy a used Hofner 12 in a heartbeat. Mines been down the river 3 times, has been strung at full tension for near 30 years, been played, abused, enjoyed and is still arrow straight. It has become my playable beater and it goes everywhere.

 

 

www.homestead.com/crazymikesworkshop/files/saltriver.gif

[sonik]

I thought you were saying "down the river" as some sort of expression.

 

Then I saw the pic. Thats awesome man!

 

[BlackHatMike]

Originally posted by sonik777 Thats awesome man!

 

Yeah ,so was the sunburn later:(

 

Many coats of paste wax if you try it. And long pants.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Another vote for waiting until you can find a Taylor or Guild 12-string...in the long run, you'll be glad you waited for Quality.

[sonik]

Ok maybe I will save up for somthing better and buy one of those 80$ Rogue's for the time being! lol

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally posted by sonik777 Ok maybe I will save up for somthing better and buy one of those 80$ Rogue's for the time being! lol

 

Well, if you save money really fast...I'm thinking the $80 Rogue will be playable for a limited time...probably not much more than a year, at the most!

 

OTOH, you'll be able to see just how much you like a 12-string before investing in a good one.

[sonik]

Well I ordered the rogue. Figured why not . When I do upgrade I can always give the rogue to some lucky girl...

 

[sonik]

Received the Rogue today. Arrived in perfect condition as far as I can tell. No discernable flaws (for the price). The tuners are very stiff, better that then loose I guess!

 

Going out of town for the next few days and i'm bringing it with me.

 

Will report back.