Guitar for daughter - problem?

[bsman]

My 14 yo daughter has decided she wants to start playing guitar, and I'm happy about that. However, she's also decided that she wants an epiphone hummingbird guitar because "it's pretty". I've tried to dissuade her from this - I have nothing against it, but for the price (~ $450, unless I'm mistaken), I could get her a really nice S&P or Tacoma EM9, etc. and have even offered her the use of any of my guitars, but that stupid epiphone (actually, I haven't picked one up and given it a try) is all she wants.

 

Do you think I'm being silly and should just go along with her desires, or is she going to regret getting the hummingbird? Also, are there any other acoustics out there that might appeal to her sense of aesthetics while providing more tone at a similar price?

[solitaire]

There are other H-bird clones out there that sound far better than the Epiphone. I think you should infact tell her bluntly that Epiphone is not worth the money and beauty doesn't make a fine sounding/ playing instrument. The Ibanez Concord is a fine, classic clone of the []-shoulder concept, though no longer in production.

I also think that maybe the H-bird could be a bit cumbersome for your daughter. The thing is an inch wider than the average D-nought and rather heavy. Maybe you could get a used Songwriter or Working Musician Gibby in decent shape for about that kind of money.

Anyroad your daughter should know what she's in for in every aspect of the matter. If not, she might hold that against you as well - either way there's a chance she'll sing the blues and you'll play the fiddle, and you don't want that, right?

[Herb Hunter]

Couldn't you take a really good guitar with you to the store and have her compare it with the Epiphone? She has to draw the conclusion herself that the Epiphone isn't a good guitar.

If she hasn't had any lessons yet, teach her a chord that she can use to compare the action and tone.

Otherwise a used guitar that is pretty, toneful and easy to play may be your only option.

[solitaire]

Hang on. If you happen to know somebody really into paintjobs, you could get hold of a Tacoma or something, have it Cherry Burst sprayed and fitted with a H-bird pickguard. I'm being dead serious about it, as long as looks are more important than sound an playability.
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Then of course, when I started out playing guitar, my first guitar was a Classical. Now I've grown thick fingertips so I can play Medium gauge strings or a 12-string without too much pain. One shouldn't bite off more than a mouthfull at a time, or one may get detered of learning the instrument. I know far too well the feeling of playing something that doesn't sound "right" but is made by a certain manufacturer or of a certain look.

[solitaire]

Originally posted by Herb Hunter Couldn't you take a really good guitar with you to the store and have her compare it with the Epiphone? She has to draw the conclusion herself that the Epiphone isn't a good guitar. If she hasn't had any lessons yet, teach her a chord that she can use to compare the action and tone. Otherwise a used guitar that is pretty, toneful and easy to play may be your only option.

 

Great point you got there, Herbie. Unless she can actually play the guitar she couldn't say whether a H-bird is the right guitar for her or not. Maybe she'd like an Asian made or used Guild or some other mellow sounding brand? Try the guitars like trying shoes with somebody with a particular shape of feet: Provide her with a range of different guitars in your price range, ask her to close her eyes and focus her attention to the feel and the sound of the guitars. Tell her she shouldn't buy a guitar she's not 100% satisfied with.

 

You could try and tell her that one day when she's making her own money she could buy an authentic Gibson Hummingbird if she wants to, but for now the utmost important thing is finding a guitar in this given pricerange that she'll be fine with in regards to looks, sound and playability (the latter two obviously of greater importance than the previous one)

[knockwood]

I don't envy your predicament - sounds to me like you're on tricky terrain here: move too forcibly in favor of quality as the ultimate consideration and you're likely to make her mad and turn her off to the notion of learning to play altogether; on the other hand, I can understand not wanting to invest a significant amount of dough in a purchase that seems to you rather on the impractical side.

If your daughter is pretty set (at 14, I had a stubborn mind like a chunk of granite), my inclination would be to go for the Hummingbird. Practicality vs. 14-yr-old girl = no contest. If she's interested in learning to play the guitar, which can be a fantastically enriching thing in her life if she sticks with it, does it really matter what initially motivates her to learn? With most of us who play, did we really start with exceptional tone as THE primary consideration? I'm just thinking that if she really likes the guitar she gets - for whatever reason - then she'll play it more, improve faster... As she improves, later on her priorities will begin to shift from looks to tone... For now, though, I'm thinking it's better to have her wailing away on a tonally inferior guitar than to have a higher quality git go stale in the closet...

[deevee]

Have her take a look at this Jay Turser acoustic:



It's very pretty and round, smallish, but most all sounds as good as it looks, lightweight, easy action, and reasonably priced. I've had people think it was a boutique guitar.

[cfgsteak]

bsman - GC has that particular guitar on sale for $350 right now, I have their ad on my desk.

I played it last week. Way too thick for me and I assume I am a little bigger then your 14 year old daughter.

[bsman]

Thanks for all you input. I think that the best approach may be to bring one of my guitars to the store with us, have her check out the epiphone and then hear me A/B both guitars. Hopefully, that will help me convince her, because:

"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny..."

 

[Goodhaggis]

Well with all of the other posts there isn't much left other than, my duaghter is 14 and has now been playing for about 18 months. She bought her first guitar, an acoustic Johnson that I set up for her and the playability is great. My advice to her was for the playing and sound.
With that said now she would like an Electric. I let her play my SG from the 60's and she just loves it.

sooooo that also said - Go to as many small hole in the wall music stores and sit down and have her play as many as her fingers can handle. Get the experience of talking with some folks that have like many of us have owned too many guitars to find that the one we had was the best.

Good luck and enjoy the experience of making music.

Haggis

[bsman]

Originally posted by Goodhaggis Get the experience of talking with some folks that have like many of us have owned too many guitars to find that the one we had was the best. Haggis

 

 

You know, that's kind of the problem. Even though I've played for about 40 years, and have gone through dozens of guitars, since I'm her Dad, I'm an idiot, and she'd sooner listen to one of her friends who has played for a year. Since she turned 14, My IQ has apparently been reduced by at least 50 points!

[solitaire]

What ever you do, don't A/B the Epiphone with a far more expensive guitar or she will say "it's a matter of price then, isn't it?" and you're bummed. The key thing is for her to put all her focus on the tone, comfort and playability. Tell her choosing one's first guitar is a big decision you just don't rush into. An acoustic guitar is much like a being or entity you have almost a relationship to. By the patchbay, you don't see much of the guitar when playing it, so the actual appearance of the guitar shouldn't mean that much at the end of the day.

The Epi may look exactly like it's US cousin but the aspects of similarity ends there. Even if she'd reduce your EQ by 50 points or so, prove to her those 50 points only constitutes a grain of sand in the Sahara. I don't mean to sound blunt myself, but I'd try every trick in the book to make her look beyond what meets the eye and see the guitars for what they are.

Best of luck, mate. Given some thought, I'm sure she'll come around.

[solitaire]

Just out of curiosity: What exactly made her set her mind on the Epi H-bird? I assume she hasn't actually played one yet. I mean it couldn't be just because she finds it pretty looking. Something must have led her or spurred her in that direction. Could you run us through with some idols of hers?

[Tony Burns]

Im not really an Epiphone person - Yamaha use to make a humingbird copy back in the 70's that honestly was a better guitar than the Gibson ( gonna get alot of hate mail on this one )
I had a friend who went threw the same thing your going threw with your daughter, he had to have so and so model, because his friend had one - took him up to Buffalo- think it was called the String shop ) , and took along my old Guild D-55 - to compare tone ,action and construction- He feel in Love with a Martin D-35 - , He liked my Guild fine, but loved how the martin neck felt- glad of the choice he made rather than buying what he originally went their for- really dont like to buy guitars I cant put my hands on and play, because their as different as people are different-
hope this helps--

[bsman]

Originally posted by Tony Burns [bI had a friend who went threw the same thing your going threw with your daughter, he had to have so and so model, because his friend had one - took him up to Buffalo- think it was called the String shop ) , and took along my old Guild D-55 - to compare tone ,action and construction- He feel in Love with a Martin D-35 -

If my daughter falls in love with a D-35, I can guarantee it will be unrequited love for the forseeable future!

[PapaTom1]

Gee, maybe I'm lucky that my daughter never got interested in guitars. My 7-year-old granddaughter, though, is starting to ask some guitar questions.......

[zatoichi]

Originally posted by bsman You know, that's kind of the problem. Even though I've played for about 40 years, and have gone through dozens of guitars, since I'm her Dad, I'm an idiot, and she'd sooner listen to one of her friends who has played for a year. Since she turned 14, My IQ has apparently been reduced by at least 50 points!

I know this feeling (my daughter's 17 & a college freshman this year). Sometimes, it would just seem like my opinion was the absolute last one she was willing to entertain - even if I'd taught the subject to the other people she was asking! Had a pretty rough time w/ it until I figured out that I was wrong; turns out to be just the opposite: she's almost TOO ready to accept what I say, and then one day, the thought occured to her that 'yeah, Dad might be smart, and he might be right - but what if he's wrong about [ insert significant issue here ]?' The uncertainty drove her to find out if other people agreed with - or at least respected - what she was getting from me, and to arrive at an independent conclusion when possible.

 

Which, of course, is exactly what I taught her to do.

 

Once I had that straight, I felt very comfortable w/ her putting things together for herself & consulting me last (or even not consulting me at all), because I know she respects me enough to try & use what she *HAS* learned from me, instead of just expecting me to tell her what to do.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if the same is true for you & your girl: if you're a decent human being, the chances are you've done better than you fear.

 

That said, I agree w/ the idea of teaching her how to play something, and using that as a basis for comparison; if the idea is YOU buy HER a guitar, I'd be very comfortable going so far as to require it. If she learns to play something, and actually compares how various guitars play and sound, and makes a decision she can explain & feel good about, then she's done her due diligence and you've done your job. Even if it's the Epiphone she chooses.

 

If, however, it's just that it's pretty & she doesn't care if it sounds and/or plays like a nightmare - well, that's different: that sounds like she wants an expensive accessory, not a musical instrument. It would be generous of you to pay for half of it, but reasonable to expect her to raise the rest on her own first.

 

And, BTW, Musician's Friend has that Epi Hummingbird for $350 through the end of the month.