Members NDSP Posted October 6, 2005 Members Posted October 6, 2005 I have been a musician for coming up on 30yrs, but this whole guitar world is new to me. My ears have been very cultured towards the orchestral genre. And yes in my particular (past) instrument there where different camps just like here in guitar. But I came into guitar with a trained ear and no bias. So I like to think maybe I have a unique perspective to what sounds good(to me) in the world of guitars. I came from a completely acoustic world with no amplification what so ever. So it is only natural for me to lean towards the acuoutic side on guitars too. With all that said, my goal was to find a guitar that all the voices could be heard( strings ). So I set out on a mission to learn as much as possible about guitars and try everything I could get my hands on. Interesting enough the first guitar I tried that caught my attention with sound quality and balance, was a Martin DX1. though every Martin I've tried since then has left me unimpressed. They have all been to boomy, with the mids and highs completely lost in the boom. And these where anywhere from the DM to the HD-28V and in between. All the takamine's have left me flat, just completely indescript to my ears. I tried all the yamaha's, fenders, sonata's, Seagul's, etc... Nothing to get me going. I listened to all the audio files I could find on the net and they all pretty much reiterated my initial impression. The one that got me, because it had clear and present mids and highs that balanced the lows, was a Taylor. The first one I tried was a 110. I've found that they all for the most part have this characteristic, some more than others. I can't say any of the different tone woods for Back and sides has made a bit of difference for me, though the top wood has for sure, I like the mellowness of cedar, but the presence of spruce is more to my liking. I really don't care what is on the head stock, in all honesty. I just want a good balanced voicing. So I'm probably going to get the Martin DX1 for the wife( trade in her Esteve classical, she really only strums so the classical isn't doing it) and get a Taylor of some kind for me. I want to be primarily a fingerpicker, but I really like the sound of the 110. Fingerpickers aren't supposed to use dreads right? LOL. Anyway, that has been my take. For whatever its worth.
Members Herb Hunter Posted October 6, 2005 Members Posted October 6, 2005 Originally posted by NDSP Fingerpickers aren't supposed to use dreads right? Finger players can use any guitar that suits them. Leo Kotke uses a jumbo. I was on an elevator in Nashville when a flamenco player stepped on and seeing me with a steel string guitar he said. "You can't play flamenco on that! So every now and then I play flamenco on a steel string. Another time I was playing Romance on a steel string at Mars and someone said, "you need a nylon string for that." So I played Recuerdos de Alhambra on it. I found your post interesting and can't wait to see what comments it provokes.
Members bjorn-fjord Posted October 6, 2005 Members Posted October 6, 2005 Thanks for posting an "outsider's" perspective. Considering your training I would be interested to hear your prespective on the guitar's intonation? That is, how does the guitar sound to you as you play from the nut up to and beyond the 12th fret? The reason I ask is that another luthier friend of mine was once commissioned to build a steel string guitar for a violinist from the local symphony orchestra. To her highly trained ear, the intonation of the guitar was off but to our table-saw addled ears, it sounded just fine. After much investigation and adjustment we all determined that the problem was not that there was anything wrong with this particular guitar but that it was a failing of guitars in general. Fretted instruments, by their very nature, cannot be in perfect tune all over the fret-board. It's good enough for most people, but those with highly attuned pitch perception often uncover an inherent flaw with the modern steel string guitar.
Members Herb Hunter Posted October 6, 2005 Members Posted October 6, 2005 Originally posted by bjorn-fjord Fretted instruments, by their very nature, cannot be in perfect tune all over the fret-board. Nevertheless, Some guitars have better intonation than others. You may find the article, Taming the Beast: Intonation downloadable in PDF from: http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/reference/techsheets.htmlinteresting.
Members bjorn-fjord Posted October 7, 2005 Members Posted October 7, 2005 Originally posted by Herb Hunter Nevertheless, Some guitars have better intonation than others. You may find the article, Taming the Beast: Intonation downloadable in PDF from:http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/reference/techsheets.htmlinteresting. Very true. I still can't believe that many high-end guitars still feature a regular, non-contoured saddle. Check this out for some extreme investigation into the subject: http://www.doolinguitars.com/intonation/intonation1.html
Members JasmineTea Posted October 7, 2005 Members Posted October 7, 2005 Anyone got the link to the compensated NUT? I have a few guitars with excelent intonation. They have compensated saddles, but they also have very low action.
Members Vibroluxman Posted October 7, 2005 Members Posted October 7, 2005 Yeah I noticed when I first started playing guitar that the intonation was out of wack for me, but now that I've gotten used to the idiosyncracies I don't notice it at much anymore.
Members NDSP Posted October 7, 2005 Author Members Posted October 7, 2005 Yes I have noticed that, but i had been attributing that to my slight deflection of the string while trying to finger a chord. So maybe it isn't my lack dexterity after all. the waa waa of a just so barely out of tune chord does kind make me nuts. The thing I miss the most about playing in a professional orchestra is those perfectly in tune chords that sent goose bumps down my spine. Pure heaven. I do enjoy the tone/sound of the guitar though, even with the intonation issues.
Members Tony Burns Posted October 7, 2005 Members Posted October 7, 2005 What sounds strange to one person sounds fine to another- sometimes the right sounding guitar may be many different guitars- A Martin, A Guild , etc. have a few different instruments may suit a certain feeling your trying to get out of a Guitar- I have a small parlor guitar ( old Washburn ) which i sometimes play when i want a balanced tone, but not the volume. I also have a Jumbo Greven white lady when i want a bright jazzy sound , a Guild D-55 when i need it sweet-( and many others for different moods ) now im looking for a good classical ( or nylon folk classic ) for the times in between. It has taken me also 30 years to get the sounds i wanted in a guitar, but it seems its the collective sound of the many different voices that I like- maybe the best Guitar for you is two guitars ?
Members bjorn-fjord Posted October 7, 2005 Members Posted October 7, 2005 Originally posted by NDSP Yes I have noticed that, but i had been attributing that to my slight deflection of the string while trying to finger a chord. So maybe it isn't my lack dexterity after all. the waa waa of a just so barely out of tune chord does kind make me nuts. The thing I miss the most about playing in a professional orchestra is those perfectly in tune chords that sent goose bumps down my spine. Pure heaven. I do enjoy the tone/sound of the guitar though, even with the intonation issues. I have a weird theory that relates to this topic. I think that part of the reason the steel string guitar has had such an influence on popular music and our culture in general is due, in part, because it has imperfect intonation. I realize that the biggest factor is the portability of the guitar but bear with me here! The imperfect quality of a guitar makes it much easier to sing along to. Most people do not have perfect singing voices and the guitar gives an imperfect singing voice a little leeway. This "forgiveness" on the part of the guitar has caused many more people to sing than a perfectly intonated instrument would. Much of American roots music (blues, country, folk) featured singers who were passable at best. I doubt that these forms of music would have evolved the way they did without the aid of the imperfect nature of the guitar. ok, I'm nuts.
Members happyjack Posted October 7, 2005 Members Posted October 7, 2005 Originally posted by JasmineTea Anyone got the link to the compensated NUT? Earvana Compensated Tuning System:http://www.earvana.com/
Members JasmineTea Posted October 8, 2005 Members Posted October 8, 2005 Originally posted by happyjack Earvana Compensated Tuning System:http://www.earvana.com/ Thanks. NDSP,DX1 is something like a generic-cookie-cutter-made guitar. They all sound just about the same because they are (imo). They are an even toned guitar (a good thing), each and every one, but they still lack the character of an all wood guitar. Evan laminate guitars have more life in them. (imo, again) I expect the builders of brass instruments such as the French Horn are a little more exacting from piece to piece. I think bjorn was headed in the right direction. People are imperfect, guitars are imperfect. Good match. I think it would be great if all guitar makers were small companies building a handfull of guitars per year. At the same time I'm glad all companies big and small do not cookie-cutter-make guitars. One HD-28 does'nt sound like the next.
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