My Acoustic Won't Stay in Tune

[dcrenshaw]

It's a Yamaha FG180 from the 60's. We've had it for almost 40 years now. It's always been a little fickle getting into tune, but now it doesn't want to tune right at all. I replaced the tuners with decent new ones, but that hasn't made much difference. When you look down the fretboard you can see a concave bow to it. I suppose I could try adjusting the trussrod, but I remember taking it to a shop and they said that wouldn't really help. So what I'm wondering is when do you finally let go of the guitar and let it die in peace? The sound on this thing is still there, it's a real nice tone, but it's getting damn near unplayable on the g and b strings.

[The Armadillo of leprosy]

hmmm, i'm not too sure
will it not tune open at all? or are the fretted notes out of tune?

it maybe an intonation problem...

and i'm not sure if i understand you- the neck is bowed? or the fretboard it self is curved?

if it's teh fretboard I don't know of any way to fix that aside from taking it to an experienced luthier and seeing if they can work some magic.

if it's the neck the truss rod needs some adjusting

the only other thing i can think of is make sure the saddle is in good shape and that your bridge pins aren't slipping

[gnurph]

Or, failing the repairs, I'll take it!





Just Kidding.



Sorta....

[catdaddy]

With a guitar of that vintage I'd be thinking a re-fretting might be due. If the frets are worn it can cause serious tuning problems when not playing open strings. Of course if the neck or fretboard are bowed in some way that needs to be addressed as well. Can't believe a good luthier couldn't correct the situation for you.

[The Armadillo of leprosy]

Originally posted by catdaddy Can't believe a good luthier couldn't correct the situation for you.

 

 

i agree

[Dave W.]

Unless you are talking about an intonation problem, it seems like something is constantly moving or flexing. Maybe a completely loose truss rod that is doing nothing, or cracked or loose bracing that is allowing the top to flex too much. When I dig out a guitar that is well out of tune, it usually takes two or three retunings before it settles in. Seems like by the time I get to the last string the change in tension has thrown off the first string and I need to go over all of them again.

Dave

[JasmineTea]

Put some graphite in the grooves of the nut. A No.2 pencile is a good source for graphite, just loosen the strings, take them out of the grooves, and scribble over each groove so the graphite falls in, tighten the srtings. If the pencile marks bother you, erase them.

You can adjust the truss yourself, just make sure the strings are loose, and don't turn it more than a half turn per day. Righty-tighty, lefty-loosey. Tightening it will take the forward bow out of it- hopefuly. Don't force it.

If these two things don't fix it, take it to a GOOD luthier and see what he has to say. It's a darn good guitar, and worth keeping.

[sktn77a]

Older Yamahas tend to have very high nut actions and saddle actions. This could cause intonation (tuning?) problems. If the open notes are in tune and the fretted notes are sharp, that's frequently a nut/saddle action problem. Put a capo onthe first fret. If it's easier to barre a F# chord with the capo than an F with the open fret, your nut is too high. If the upper frets are harder to barre than the capo'd chord at the first fret, then the saddle action is too high.

This may or may not be corrected by a setup as the neck had probably moved over the years but you should be able to get it playable an not noticeably out of tune.

Keith
1975 FG200

[Freeman Keller]

I still play my FG150 which was the first guitar I owned. The tuners are pretty worn out but I left them on the guitar as part of it's history - but I have boned it and compensated the saddle.

 

I can't quite figure out from your post what you think the problem is. If you can't tune the guitar or it slips out of tune (goes flat) it is most likely the tuners, sticky nut slots or the bridge pins (or the way you wrap your strings or set the pins). If the neck has too much relief (bow from the nut to the 12th or 14th frets) you need to adjust your truss rod. If the action is too high you need to lower the saddle (or have the neck reset, maybe not cost effective on this guitar). I'm amazed that my 35 year old Yamaha has not needed a reset while both my Martins have.

 

Once again, Frank Ford's frets.com will show you how to check the relief, action and saddle, as well as how to properly string it.

 

I agrees with JT - these are great guitars and deserves to be set up right and played

[Mr Handman]

Originally posted by dcrenshaw It's a Yamaha FG180 from the 60's. We've had it for almost 40 years now. It's always been a little fickle getting into tune, but now it doesn't want to tune right at all. I replaced the tuners with decent new ones, but that hasn't made much difference. When you look down the fretboard you can see a concave bow to it. I suppose I could try adjusting the trussrod, but I remember taking it to a shop and they said that wouldn't really help. So what I'm wondering is when do you finally let go of the guitar and let it die in peace? The sound on this thing is still there, it's a real nice tone, but it's getting damn near unplayable on the g and b strings.

 

 

Good advice from JT on the nut issue

[70's Strat]

string the guitar properly

[Andrewrg]

A couple of things:The mechanics of a worm and gear tuner will not allow it to slip once in tune,it just cant happen once there is tension on it.A sloppy,worn mechanism will be more difficult to tune initially,but once done wont slip.
Are you stretching the strings adequately after putting on a new set?
Are you installing them correctly?
Here`s my method and I seldom have tuning problems with it:
First,take the string,fit as usual at the bridge.Next,keeping the string under tension put one turn around the tuner post.
Then,feed the string through the hole over the wind you have put on,pull tight and tune to pitch.You`ll see that as you tune up,the string will rise up the post and clamp itself tight at the hole.
This method ensures that you dont put a potentially metal fatigue inducing kink in the string-the string leaves the tuner post at a tangent,not a right angle.
Finally,pull the string upwards,away from the fingerboard to snug the windings down and retune.Keep doing this until there is no play left.
Your guitar should,given there are no structural issues,stay in tune.
I too had an FG180 in 1969.I concur that a high nut will cause intonation problems,and this is always something to be addressed first.A tweak of the trussrod will deal with the neck bow.
Dont let it die! These Red Label Yamahas are very nice guitars.

[dave251]

It's time to take the guitar to a qualified tech. One of those qualifications will be experience with the red label Yamahas.

The truss rod in these guitars is particularly problematic. It's not the traditonal "Gibson" style rod, rather, a "compression" rod. It lays in a flat slot, deep in the neck. And it's basically non-functional after the guitar is a few years old.

One of the reasons these guitars sound so good, is the light contrcution. Braced lightly, with thinner than normal plywood making up the top, back, and sides. You'll notice that there is a finish on the INSIDE of the guitar...this is to help slow moisture transfer and a changing of the geometry of the instrument.

Basically, these were designed to be "five year" guitars...after that, thrown away for a "better" instrument.

Consecuentlly, a neck reset(almost always required) is pretty tough to do, as the adhesive used won't want to release when trying to pull the neck.

However, there is usually enough fretboard that you can have a "plane and refret", to get the action playing good again.

As for the tuning issue, more than likely it will come from a couple of sources. On a pin style bridge, as was stated earlier, check the condition of the bridge plate and the seating of the strings against it. An inexpensive fix is to put a small bridge plate "doubler", usually made from maple, although formica works great....then refit the bridge pins(new ones are recommended).

Next, look at the nut...replace it with a new bone nut. HIGHLY recommended. These have to be correctly fit or you will have tuning problems.

Do yourself a huge favor and have the guitar looked at by a pro. If the neck angle isn't too bad, you can have a wonderful instrument for about the cost of a cheesy new import. And it will sound TONS better.