Solid or laminate Back and Sides?

[chronicinsomnia]

I am predominately an electric player but write on acoustic. I have an old Fender acoustic that has seen better days and am looking for a new dreadnought.

 

What differences does the back and sides make to an acoustic's overall sound? I've read many posts saying that the sound will improve with age because of the solid wood. I'm not going to buy a guitar based upon what it will sound like at a later date. I'm going to buy a guitar based upon how it sounds now at the time of purchase.

 

 

I know this is like opening a big ol' can of worms but I want to know the general consensus and the reasons behind the logic.

 

Thanks

 

PeAcE

[t60 fan]

If you are unable or unwilling to control the relative humidity of the guitars environment, a laminate (plywood) makes some sense from the standpoint of durability. Same would be true for impacts. There are some really good accoustics available at reasonable prices if you are not opposed to multiply b/s. Let your ears be the judge - if you can't hear the difference, why pay for it?

[Freeman Keller]

Two threads on this forum

 

I got here by running the search engine for "laminated back" in the title for the Acoustic Forum on HC. You could have done the same

 

thread 1

 

thread 2

[t60 fan]

I've heard good things about Breedlove's Atlas series, and Alvarez also makes some fine models. Many of the lower end Martins (below the -15 series) are made of laminated (ply) wood.

 

Again, listen for yourself.

[guitarcapo]

Suffice it to say that I vote for the back and side woods not making a big difference. I've been banned a bulletin board for having this opinion. Seriously.

[leftync]

Don't be too quick to judge the old Fender. I bought an old Fender acoustic, from the '70s, for my son, and it sounds great. Any aged guitar with a solid top should improve. And if it survives in good shape, it's a pretty good testment to construction quality.

[kwakatak]

Much as I'd like to say that solid-wood sides are better I just can't. With winter coming up I'm watching my home's RH drop dangerously close to 40% and just this once I'm breathing a sigh of relief that my guitar is completely laminated.

 

As long as the top is one solid layer the guitar should only get better-sounding with age. As far as I know, the back and sides only reflect the soundwaves. The top does the real work.

[t60 fan]

I believe this is where someone is supposed to say "then why can one hear the difference between two identical guitars with different b/s, say a Larrivee L-03R (rosewood b/s) and a L-03 (mahogany)?"

[guit30]

ok, these are both solid sides and back being compared ,yeh they sound different,rosewood and mahogany sound different.

if they they were rosewood laminate vs mahogany sides and back, they would sound the same, because they are both plywood

jim

[FingerBone Bill]

Anyone who has heard an Ovation knows that the back and sides must contribute something to the tone.

[t60 fan]

 

Originally posted by FingerBone Bill Anyone who has heard an Ovation knows that the back and sides must contribute something to the tone.

 

 

 

Case closed, your Honor.

[JasmineTea]

 

Originally posted by guitarcapo Suffice it to say that I vote for the back and side woods not making a big difference. I've been banned a bulletin board for having this opinion. Seriously.

Hey, that's pretty funny. Banned for having an opinion.

 

I agree the overall EQ of a guitar is for the most part determined by the top. Scale length has more effect than B&S. But different wood types on the B&S is definatly audible.

 

I don't think B&S has much effect on the ballance from lows to highs, but it does change the character of the tone.

 

IMO, rose seems to have less fundamental, other freques are more noticeable. Mahog seems to wash them all together.

[guitarcapo]

 

Originally posted by t60 fan I believe this is where someone is supposed to say "then why can one hear the difference between two identical guitars with different b/s, say a Larrivee L-03R (rosewood b/s) and a L-03 (mahogany)?"

 

 

 

That's when I answer how other factors are different and what they are probably hearing are differences in the soundboard make and construction, and that just because two guitars sound different, it's an error in logic to attribute it to that one factor. I then go on to mention that two guitars of identical models can sound a lot different too. What fun.

[guitarcapo]

 

Originally posted by JasmineTea Hey, that's pretty funny. Banned for having an opinion. I agree the overall EQ of a guitar is for the most part determined by the top. Scale length has more effect than B&S. But wood type on the B&S is definatly audible. I don't think B&S has much effect on the ballance from lows to highs, but it does change the character of the tone. IMO, rose seems to have less fundamental, other freques are more noticeable. Mahog seems to wash them all together.

 

 

 

Yea. It's a forum for instrument makers run by this Nazi bitch. I refuse to mention the site because I don't want to advertise her {censored} blogsite.

[lalatingstrings]

i think the hands making the guitar are more importiant than whether or not the wood is solid.for example my hero Kazuo Yairi uses his own patented form of laminating,which does not involve the use of glue or "plywood".my cy116 has a laminate mahogony back and sides,but it is ALL mahogony.not some cheap wood with mahogony on top of it.i have clarified this with the company because I noticed the rosewood model sounds very "rosewoody"where-as the mahogony is very woody,sweet and crisp as good mahogony should be.so this does not match up with the theory that all laminates sound the same.yairi laminates are a category all their own.

[Cldplytkmn]

i think the difference between rosewood b/s and mahog b/s is probably more audible than say, solid mahog and lam majog... but i think to say that the diff between rosewood and mahogany b/s is insignificant, is IMO incorrect. I think the larrivee 03 vs. 03r comparison is probably the best example i can think of. of course examples of each will vary... but as a whole i think there's definite general characteristics of each.

[dmkkeng]

 

Originally posted by t60 fan I believe this is where someone is supposed to say "then why can one hear the difference between two identical guitars with different b/s, say a Larrivee L-03R (rosewood b/s) and a L-03 (mahogany)?"

 

 

I agree there is a difference - I have compared several guitars with Mahagony and Rosewood backs/ sides and there is a consistent difference in tone between Rosewood and Mahagony. I agree most of the tone comes from the top of the guitar however I would say it is closer to a 80/20 split.

[54merk]

Rosewood and Mahogany do sound different.

 

As for the original question, there is no easy answer. The reason is that there is considerable difference in quality between laminates. Some are crap, and some are very good, and how is anyone supposed to know which is which? There is not much of a guessing game on solid woods, hence they are used almost exlusively on fine (i.e $$) guitars.

[guitarcapo]

Kazuo Yairi uses his own patented form of laminating,which does not involve the use of glue or "plywood".

 

 

:confused:

[Andrewrg]

Originally posted by guitarcapo :confused:

I wondered too.How do the laminates stay together?

[Attila]

 

Originally posted by kwakatak Much as I'd like to say that solid-wood sides are better I just can't. With winter coming up I'm watching my home's RH drop dangerously close to 40% and just this once I'm breathing a sigh of relief that my guitar is completely laminated. As long as the top is one solid layer the guitar should only get better-sounding with age. As far as I know, the back and sides only reflect the soundwaves. The top does the real work.

 

+1

 

-Attila

[Ronaldo]

Yairi's are as much'plywood' as anything. It is true that they use one type of wood (rosewood w/ rosewood, etc) but they are laminated with glue. It's also true that lam or solid, the diff. b/w rosewood and mahog. is the same -- they are different, noticeably so whether lam or solid.

 

 

I've owned yairi d-28 copy that sounded amazing (s. yairi from the 70's) and better than plenty of all solid wood high end guitars. However, it's a myth that all solid wood doesn't make a sig. diff. It absolutely does. There are other factors, but solid back and sides certainly makes a diff. although it probably takes a lot of compare/contrast to notice. It's not that a lam. guitar can't sound amazing, but solid has more resonance and sustain. It's only common sense -- rap a lam. sheet or a solid sheet of wood w/ your knuckles and there will be a diff. anyone can hear.

[JasmineTea]

Martin 1 series.