Pushbutton Killswitch problems.......popping sound....wiring prob????

[GlassJoe]

I installed an arcade style pushbutton killswitch on one of my bass guitars. Whenever I push the killswitch I get a popping sound.....almost like an instrument chord being unplugged. I wired it up like this from the killswitch..........ground (black) wire to the ground on the input jack. Hot (red) wire to the middle lug on the volume pot.

Did I do it wrong by wiring the ground to the input jack? Or can I fix it by soldering in a resistor somewhere in there??? If so what value resistor & where?

Please let me know any options or ideas you may have.

Thanks,

-GlassJoe

[GlassJoe]

Anybody got any suggestions???????

[katillac]

What type of switch is it? Is it normally open or normally closed? In my opinion, the best place to wire a kill switch in is between the rest of the electronics and the output jack. If using a SPDT toggle, I'd wire it along the positive wire to the output jack, where it will go to the positive output in one position, and go to ground on the other position. If you're talking about a Buckethead type killswitch that's momentary, that's where you need a normally closed (NC) switch, that'll allow a normal circuit except when the button is pressed.

 

More information needed from you!

[WRGKMC]

The switch was wired between the hot and ground?

If so try swapping the leads around. If the problem still persists you likely need a different switch. Overheating the contacts can also cause the plastic inside to melt and shift the contacts so the switch doent latch properly and make a quick solid contact. The switch needs to latch quickly. Some will latch like a ball point pen too slowly and cause arching. It also may not work well with certain amp types due to their sensitivity. You may be able to put a low value cap cap across the switch but I'd try a better switch first.

[GlassJoe]

It is a SANWA momentary switch.....just like Bucketheads Gibson Sig. model (the exact one)...It looks like a button on an old arcade game. It has the same action as an arcade button. You can push on it like a machine gun...& make really cool stutter effects...... It is normally closed.....pushing the button kills the signal. Here is a link to the pushbutton killswitch http://www.lizardlick.com/Sanwa-OBSN-24-24mm-Pushbutton-Blue_p_369.html .....I wired the hot to the output lug (middle) of the volume pot. And the ground wire to the input jack ground. I know I did not overheat it.......it is a decent quality pushbutton switch. Sorry for not giving more info........at the beginning. WRGKMC...........how low of a cap value?

Katillac......thanks for the info..........any more advice now that you know what kind of switch it is??? I would appreciate any info you can throw my way...

Thanks fellas,

-GlassJoe

[Narcosynthesis]

I used a toggle switch when I did a similar mod to one of my guitars, effectively used as a 'normally open' single pole, single throw switch. I had it wired in parallel with the output jack, with one pole connected to hot, one to ground so that when I hit the switch it basically short circuits the guitar by connecting hot to ground. With this wiring I haven't noticed any popping sounds.

 

I am not 100% from your description (probably mostly me as it has been a while since I have been inside a guitar) but I know wiring it in series with the guitars signal (so that it breaks the hot wire when you hit the switch) can cause popping as the pickup is basically a form of inductor, and will 'dump' some charge when you activate the switch which results in the popping, short circuiting the guitar should solve this.

 

It has been a while since I did this, and the guitar hasn't been used lately either (thanks to other unrelated wiring problems, that give you confidence in my abilities? ) but that is what I remember having it setup like.

[katillac]

Weird. I had just typed a lengthy response then realised I needed to go back and read your post again. From your description, it sounds like the wiring should be right, but if it's popping, that sounds like extra power draining off. That's why WRGKMC mentioned using a capacitor.

 

Did the switch come with two wires already on it?

 

Do you know how to test the switch to see if it's normally open or normally closed? I'm not able to find that spec on any site that sells those buttons. If you already know which it is, or if you know how to test it, this page has decent drawings of how to wire it in.

 

If you don't know how to test which type of switch it is, let us know and we can all pile up our own personal methods of how to test such things.

 

Thanks for the link to the site where you bought your switch. I found pink switches and I'm getting ideas for use in other circuits. *evil grin*

[WRGKMC]

If the switch is normally closed that explains your problem. You got the wrong switch and its the cause of the noise.

 

The only way a normally closed switch would work is to put it in series with the circuit.

This is not how a kill switch should be connected. You would have a floating hot wires and you know the results already.

It hums like an SOB

 

What you need is a normally open switch in parallel with the circuit.

When activated, the contacts shorts hot side to ground.

 

You got the wrong switch. Get a normally open pushbutton and wire it properly between hot and ground and you should be good.

[katillac]

 

If the switch is normally closed that explains your problem. You got the wrong switch and its the cause of the noise. The only way a normally closed switch would work is to put it in series with the circuit. This is not how a kill switch should be connected. You would have a floating hot wires and you know the results already. It hums like an SOB What you need is a normally open switch in parallel with the circuit. When activated, the contacts shorts hot side to ground. You got the wrong switch. Get a normally open pushbutton and wire it properly between hot and ground and you should be good.

 

 

That switch is supposedly the exact one that Buckethead uses. I found that on numerous sources. I see nothing wrong with using a NC switch. Just put it in line along the positive output wire. When pressed, it breaks the connection. Personally, I'd rather go with a NO switch so I could take it to ground, but you can't always get what you want. The page I linked to above at aexplorer has good info. His site is among the top in my bookmarks. Nice guy, too.

[Belva]

 

That switch is supposedly the exact one that Buckethead uses. I found that on numerous sources. I see nothing wrong with using a NC switch. Just put it in line along the positive output wire. When pressed, it breaks the connection. Personally, I'd rather go with a NO switch so I could take it to ground, but you can't always get what you want. The page I linked to above at aexplorer has good info. His site is among the top in my bookmarks. Nice guy, too.

 

But if you try sometime..................

Sorry, couldn't let that one go.

[GlassJoe]

I emailed the supplier I got the switch from and they confirmed that.... YES it is a normally open switch...........the exact kind Buckethead uses.......it is a SANWA normaliy open arcade style pushbuttton..........it is the exact model switch that was on his Gibson Signature Les Paul......Katillac thanks a ton for that link.......that was a great article.......according to that article that popping sound that I hear is normal......I still wish I could get rid of it though.......

WRGKMC could you let me know the value of the capacitor I should use??? Should I wire it from the hot to the ground pole on the switch???

I think I might try wiring the switch up straight to the input jack......hot & ground...............But yes it is a normally open switch........no doubt about it......

Also Katillac........no the pushbutton did not come with wires attached........it came to me just as pictured in the link.........the only place I know of that sells the pushbutton is Lizard Lick Amusements.......maybe ebay...(did not check) They are nice quality switches.......& the action of the switch is AWESOME!!!!!

Please let me know about that cap value.........

Thanks for the help guys,

-GlassJoe

.........................you find....you get what you need...................(had to keep that going).....

[katillac]

I found the same switches on a few sites, which is really cool. Not the guitar I currently am modding, but the next one I plan to mod, I have a few ideas for use of a switch like that. I have always loved arcade game switches. I have some ideas for using a joystick, but those are a bit large. I will probably pick up an old used console game joystick like the one I have for my SNES and use that.

 

Easy on the punctuation there, cowboy. =)

[WRGKMC]

If its normally open across the hot and ground thats fine. Thats the way it should be connected

Someone stated it was a normally closed switch. You cannot wire an normally closed switch in series with the hot wire.

The pickup coils hold a charge simular to what a cap does and would discharge cause a bad popping noise. Connecting in series can cause as big popping noise as unplugging guitar cord with an amp turned up depending on the amp type and how much voltage is present going into the amp.

 

If it is connected in parallel the way it should be then the switch contacts just arent good causing a scratchey connection. The only other possibility is there was a bunch of unshielded wire connecting it and the leads are picking up alot of hum.

 

The OP should post a picture. This is an extremely simple mod and if he's having noise issues, theres got to be a simple reason why.

[mrbrown49]

I'm not sure if this matters, but does the pup hot wire go the same lug on the pot as the kill switch hot?

 

Only other thing I can think of is a ground issue. You could try grounding the switch to the back of the pot incase you have ground level issues (one path having more resistance to ground than the other). Not sure that would cause a popping though.

[fatusstratus]

Are you experiencing the problem regardless of what you plug the guitar into?

[GlassJoe]

Thanks for your input fellas........WRGKMC.....thanks for your help.....you always help with any problem I have & I greatly appreciate that......you are a wealth of knowledge.......If I knew half of what you know I would be in good shape...I will post a picture of the wires, etc........here very soon.......it will be my first time posting a pic.......Im sure I can figure out how to do it though..I may need to put some heat shrink tube by the switch connections....I may have exposed too much wire........ that is a great suggestion about the unshielded wires.....(Thank You).........

Katillac......I think that site also sells joysticks and other things arcade related......you might want to check out that site......

According to the article that Katillac posted.........the popping sound is normal........any ideas on the value of cap. I should use???

Thanks again guys.........you guys are great.........Thanks for taking the time to help me out,

-GlassJoe

[katillac]

 

Someone stated it was a normally closed switch. The OP should post a picture. This is an extremely simple mod and if he's having noise issues, theres got to be a simple reason why.

 

 

He first stated that it is a normally closed, then further down said he contacted the supplier and they said it's a normally open. Posting a picture won't do squat until we know for sure what type of switch it is. Sure, one of us may spot something else wrong in the wiring, but as far as the switch wiring goes, it's moot until we know what type of switch it is.

[WRGKMC]

 

He first stated that it is a normally closed, then further down said he contacted the supplier and they said it's a normally open. Posting a picture won't do squat until we know for sure what type of switch it is. Sure, one of us may spot something else wrong in the wiring, but as far as the switch wiring goes, it's moot until we know what type of switch it is.

 

 

Disagree. If the switch is wired to the wrong contacts it can make a difference. Plus the wuality of the work and the length of the wires can all add up to the issue.

 

GlassJoe, Putting a cap across the switch will have the effect of using a tone pit so the value will need to be very small in the pico farad range. Something less than .001uf may be enough to keep the switch from arching. You just have to get a few low value caps and try them and see if you can get something that doesnt color the sound yet prevents the arching. Maybe a couple of 100 picofarad caps. Try one first and see what it does. You can connect more in parallel across the switch to increase the capacitence or add them ins series across the switch to decrease the value till you find the right value. You just want to soften the spark, not color the sound.

[GlassJoe]

Katillac...............Im sorry I posted that it was normally closed....I was confused at the moment......The supplier confirmed that it is normally open. The supplier also said that the only SANWA switches they sell are Normally Open.... So now I do know that it is normally open...for sure....without a doubt.

WRGKMC........thanks for the info on the cap values..........I have recently moved & need to dig around to find my camera.......I will post a pic. soon though. I am thinking about shortening the wires and using some heat shrink tube on the contacts & placing a few caps in there.

Thanks again for all the info......very helpful stuff,

-GlassJoe

[katillac]

 

Disagree. If the switch is wired to the wrong contacts it can make a difference. Plus the wuality of the work and the length of the wires can all add up to the issue. GlassJoe, Putting a cap across the switch will have the effect of using a tone pit so the value will need to be very small in the pico farad range. Something less than .001uf may be enough to keep the switch from arching. You just have to get a few low value caps and try them and see if you can get something that doesnt color the sound yet prevents the arching. Maybe a couple of 100 picofarad caps. Try one first and see what it does. You can connect more in parallel across the switch to increase the capacitence or add them ins series across the switch to decrease the value till you find the right value. You just want to soften the spark, not color the sound.

 

 

I'll reiterate in hopes that you'll understand it this time. It's moot point to know what the wiring looks like until the type of switch is known. Now, if he was still playing the guitar, then yes, it makes a difference, but at that time, nothing else mattered until we knew what type the switch was. His only other option would be to wire it in line on the positive to the output jack and if it cut all power then we'd know it was a normally open switch.

 

Now that we know for sure it's a normally open switch, we can better help him out with the entire wiring, including the kill switch. Though with that the previous discussion becomes moot, I still wish to make the point that you do not like to be challenged and when someone does, you get defensive and you tend to misread or otherwise misinterpret what the other person is saying.

 

One thing that may be of importance in regard to using a capacitor with the kill switch is, will it still be effective or matter in the case of the button being pushed and released rapidly? The reason I ask is because that is the reason a lot of guys install a momentary kill switch; it's not only used to totally silence the guitar like at the end of a phrase or song, but the primary use being to create a stutter effect. It's been done by other guitarists but at the risk of showing my ignorance, I think it's a sort of trademark for Buckethead. Almost every time I see someone asking about a kill switch, especially a button, it's so they can do the Buckethead thing.

 

GlassJoe, don't worry about it, man. At the time, you posted what you were told or what you thought it was. It wasn't like it was something that would make your amp explode. Good on you with wanting to shorten the wires and use heat shrink. I love heat shrink. Earlier today, I changed the wiring harness for a four-socket bathroom lighting fixture and the hardest part for me was using those damned "wire nuts" to connect wiring. If it were completely up to me, I'd solder the connections and heat shrink over them.

[GlassJoe]

Katillac........thanks for the info.......I do think the heatshrink & polishing up the wiring will do nothing but help.......I am a big fan of Buckethead........but I do not play guitar...........I only play the bass guitar........I have the switch wired up on a 4 string bass.........I just thought it would make the bass guitar more interesting...........it is a cheap bass I bought for 20 bucks.......just something to mess around with.......very cheap bass........1 pickup, 1 volume pot, 1 tone pot.......nothing special at all...........I am not trying to do a Buckethead thing at all...........Im just having fun playing bass and trying to make music..........not trying to copy anyone........just having fun trying out new things on a cheap bass guitar....I saw Buckethead's sig. les paul & I thought the switches looked awesome. I have never seen anything like that on a bass......just thought it might be cool to try out. ....I am going to rewire the switch with shorter wires & with heat shrink......maybe that will help? IF it does not I am going to try the cap. suggestion.

Thanks again for taking the time to offer me some advice........it is appreciated............greatly

Thanks,

-GlassJoe