Norman B20 or Yamaha FG-700S ?

[McBain]

Hello,

 

I've decided to take up guitar, and I am in the market for a good beginner guitar. My budget is around $300 to $350 CAN, and I've decided on two particular guitars, Norman B20 or Yamaha FG-700S. Both have spruce solid tops and sound pretty good. I'm wondering what you guys (experienced guitar players) think is better out of the two. If you have any more other suggestions for a good guitar around my price range, please recommend it. Thanks

[Rada]

GET THE NORMAN B20!!

 

You won't regret it, trust me....as I posted in another thread, after purchasing the more higher end Normans, I now use the B20 as my beater guitar. I take it on camping trips, road trips, kids play it AND drop it, and it's as solid as a rock and it's aged beautifully. Sounds better now than the day I got it

 

You can't go wrong with a hand-made, lacquer finish Godin guitar!

[kdp86]

Gotta agree, anything by Godin is well built. I haven't played Norman, but I have played Simon & Patrick and Seagull. They are great for the price, better than Yamaha.

[McBain]

thanks for the advice

 

Can anyone give me some tips or advice in approaching the salesperson to get a better deal on the guitar?

[d03nut]

I once bought me a 2nd hand Norman B50 (laminated maple B/S). All I can say is wow. Guess what? "It's the one that got away". Still hurts.

 

Well, actually I had to sell it because the previous owner had been totally oblivious to the potential damages caused by "dryness". At the time, I thought the guitar couldn't be saved. Now, I know better. I think it could have been re-humidified successfully, in which case it would have been a "darling".

 

In lieu, I got a Seagull (same parent company as Norman) M6, which was a little louder but not as complex-sounding.

 

Anyway, I think the B20 will benefit from the same kind of attention to detail and workmanship -above and beyond the price-point- as the B50.. So I highly recommend it.

 

I am very curious about the Norman ST-68 though. That's the flagship Norman guitar. I've only played that one for a couple of minutes but it was a beauty, tonally speaking.

[Stophe88]

 

Originally posted by McBain thanks for the advice Can anyone give me some tips or advice in approaching the salesperson to get a better deal on the guitar?

 

 

tell him you definitely want the guitar, then change your mind

say ur havin second thoughts and you don't want to spend that much on something ur not sure you even want.. and i bet he'll cut you a deal

[i like guitars]

Originally posted by McBain thanks for the advice Can anyone give me some tips or advice in approaching the salesperson to get a better deal on the guitar?

 

Go Yamaha! They're awesome guitars, and have superior playability!

 

 

As for the deal, for sure say you have second thoughts about the amount of money but make sure you go in with cash. Once they know you have cash and are second guessing, they'll take what you give them (if it's reasonable, of course!). I've seen people do this many times and get huge deals.

[Cldplytkmn]

 

Originally posted by McBain thanks for the advice Can anyone give me some tips or advice in approaching the salesperson to get a better deal on the guitar?

 

 

I usually just level with the person and say that i know how much i'm willing to spend on (insert product), and i know what other people are selling them for, i know what list price is and about how much to expect off.

 

oh and if you want $50 bucks more off, ask for $100... it makes you look more reasonable... kinda gives the appearance that you're just trying to meet in the middle.

 

I recently traded a handgun in for another... I was looking at a $350 piece, and wanted to get about 3 bills out of the one i already had. They asked what i was hoping to get for it, and i told them i'd like to trade straight and only have to pay background check fees. To my surprise, and delight, the woman said that sounded fair. never hurts to ask.

[Cldplytkmn]

oh yeah... i forgot to say, like the guy above me said, cash is king. ALWAYS buy with cash. if you want the best deal, there is no exception to that rule.

[McBain]

hmm, bringing in cash is a pretty good idea, I'd never thought of that.

 

What if the guitar shop is the only shop that carries the guitar I want. Should I mention that Im also interested in another guitar from another guitar shop across town?

 

And what really is a reasonable drop from a sticker price of $340 (tag says its on sale from a higher price). Canadian tax from where i am is around 15%. So the total would be around $391, without a case or any extras.

[Cldplytkmn]

thats a stiff tax... i'm not real familiar with what that guitar goes for, especially in canade... but walk in with maybe 350-360 and see if they'll go halfway or so on the tax... of course you're still paying the tax, but you know what i mean.

[Rada]

Originally posted by d03nut I am very curious about the Norman ST-68 though. That's the flagship Norman guitar. I've only played that one for a couple of minutes but it was a beauty, tonally speaking.

 

Get it!! I always go through fads with my acoustics, but this is the one I ALWAYS go back to. The ST68 is my favorite to use live and in the studio engineers and producers LOVE how it records....

 

I love when I'm doing a set or going into the studio with someone who has some $2000+ Martin, Taylor, or whatever and at the end of the session they ask me where they can get an ST68

 

I also love the way I've buffed the satin neck into a high gloss that just sparkles...

 

I think soon the word is going to get out when it comes to Godin acoustics, I'm happy I got this guitar while it was relatively inexpensive!

[d03nut]

The word is "out" on Godin for a long time now. They're the parent company for Seagull, Simon & Patrick, Art & Lutherie, Norman, to name a few. All among the best values in acoustics out there.

 

I'm sure the ST-68 records well, I had a similar experience with the B 50. It's not, however, necessarily inexpensive (upwards of $1000 Cdn.).

 

Ah, well.........

[Rada]

 

Originally posted by d03nut The word is "out" on Godin for a long time now. They're the parent company for Seagull, Simon & Patrick, Art & Lutherie, Norman, to name a few. All among the best values in acoustics out there. I'm sure the ST-68 records well, I had a similar experience with the B 50. It's not, however, necessarily inexpensive (upwards of $1000 Cdn.). Ah, well.........

 

 

I'm well versed when it comes to Godin acoustics and all the companies affiliated with it and all the companies under it's umbrella...the fact is, that the word is NOT out when it comes to Godin acoustics. Maybe in Canda, but I'm in the US (CA to be specific). I'll admit several here know about Seagull, but only a few know about the others...

 

And I got my ST68 for $900....for a solid spruce top, solid rosewood back, mahogany neck, real wood rosetta (even some higher end guitars have stickers still), buffed lacquer finish that's only going to get better with age (a la Gibson) I would call this a bargain IMO

[Cldplytkmn]

this is off-topic, but its a genuine question for Rada and others... do you think that Godin can compete with larrivee once they start getting into 6-700+ guitars? I've only played maybe one or two high end Godin made guitars and honestly i can't tell you which ones, but i can say with conviction that i don't think that they can compete with what larrivee is turning out.

 

Its not a knock to Norman or any of their other 'children' its just that i see them as a low/mid market brand.

[Rada]

As someone who has owned a Larrivee and played several....I can honestly say that my ST68 can compete with the D-03R

 

it will lose but not by that far....you know what I mean? It's a worthy competitor is what I think I'm trying to say. Have you played an ST68? also, the high end spruce/rosewood Seagull probably ties with the Larrivee IMO. I have yet to try Simon & Patrick's SC series (Show Case series) Rosewood model to see if that is a competitor as well....I'll be sure to do it at the NAMM show coming up!

 

But this is all to my ears....you may think any of these sound awful!

[Cldplytkmn]

I know that if Godin does something, they're going to do it pretty well... i guess i'm just wondering if the way to break into more markets is by making more and more high end models.

[i like guitars]

 

Originally posted by McBain hmm, bringing in cash is a pretty good idea, I'd never thought of that. What if the guitar shop is the only shop that carries the guitar I want. Should I mention that Im also interested in another guitar from another guitar shop across town? And what really is a reasonable drop from a sticker price of $340 (tag says its on sale from a higher price). Canadian tax from where i am is around 15%. So the total would be around $391, without a case or any extras.

 

 

Well you said you wanted a Norman right? If you do and you live in Canada (like i do), then no worries, i know at least 6 other guitar shops that deal Norman. And even if one shop doesn't have the exact model you want, you can easily order one, and the saleperson know that, so don't worry about that.

 

As for the price drop it's kinda trickier in Canada to get a discount than the US, but you have an advantage with Godin, beacuse it's Canadian made, and really, the retailer isn't losing as much money than say if they were giving you a discount on a US Taylor, so they will be more flexible with the price. But generally, it depends what store you're buying it from, b/c some stores won't budge, whereas some will be more flexible.

 

Another option, is they might give it to you wo/ the sales tax, which is good. OR you can go the route and get at regular price but ask for a free case, strings and maybe a humidifyer, which most stores will be open to.

 

Good luck though, and remember cash is the key!

[d03nut]

Umm, I beg to differ as far as Godin's lack of exposure (in the US) may be concerned.

 

Godin itself as a brand may not be that well known but everybody's heard of Seagull. In many guitar surveys, it consistently -especially the S6- ranks as one of the best values in the less than $500 segment.

 

In fact, I read an article in a reputable guitar mag (yeah, and I don't remember the name) that in terms of sale, Godin is now considered as one of the "big three" along with Martin & Taylor thus replacing I guess Gibson.

[i like guitars]

 

Originally posted by d03nut Umm, I beg to differ as far as Godin's lack of exposure (in the US) may be concerned. Godin itself as a brand may not be that well known but everybody's heard of Seagull. In many guitar surveys, it consistently -especially the S6- ranks as one of the best values in the less than $500 segment. In fact, I read an article in a reputable guitar mag (yeah, and I don't remember the name) that in terms of sale, Godin is now considered as one of the "big three" along with Martin & Taylor thus replacing I guess Gibson.

 

 

i wasn't refering to godin's exposure in the states, i was refering to norman's exposure in canada. in the shops i've been to in canada, they give better deals on canadian made brands rather than u.s brands, therfore the canadian buyer can get more leeway for a better price than on that from a us made guitar. everytime i go to get a new guitar in canada, and i'm looking for a u.s made one, they always try to sell me a norman or seagull. but i personally don't care for normans or any godin-made guitar except their classical "La Patrie" line.

[Cldplytkmn]

 

Originally posted by Rada I think soon the word is going to get out when it comes to Godin acoustics, I'm happy I got this guitar while it was relatively inexpensive!

 

 

this is what do3nut is talking about.

[i like guitars]

Apologies.

[Cldplytkmn]

no problem here mate

[Rada]

 

Originally posted by d03nut Umm, I beg to differ as far as Godin's lack of exposure (in the US) may be concerned. Godin itself as a brand may not be that well known but everybody's heard of Seagull. In many guitar surveys, it consistently -especially the S6- ranks as one of the best values in the less than $500 segment. In fact, I read an article in a reputable guitar mag (yeah, and I don't remember the name) that in terms of sale, Godin is now considered as one of the "big three" along with Martin & Taylor thus replacing I guess Gibson.

 

 

Did you not read my post? I said several know about Seagull just not the other brands....why don't you read before replying next time:rolleyes:

 

And everyone here knows I love Godins, but Godin will NEVER replace Gibson acoustics in the US....NEVER

[Cldplytkmn]

if seagull has gained exposure... then Godin has gained exposure...

 

now if you mean that the name "Godin" and/or all their other lines haven't gotten a ton of exposure... i can probably, maybe give you that (although tons of people around here know their story)...

 

But Godin as a parent company has most certainly been shown to the world through Seagull, whether people know the guitars are made by Godin or not.