Members Magpel Posted January 3, 2006 Members Posted January 3, 2006 Hi AcGuit forum, I'm a frequenter of KSS and SSS but am stopping by here to see if I can spark a little discussion before making a big decision on a new acoustic. tried out a bunch for a good 1 1/2 hrs. last night and two (very different) axes were singing to me: 1. Laririvee L-05 -- body size somewhere between a dreadnought and an orchestral model. Really open, shimmering sound but not wihtout that tight kernel and string distinctness that is really important to my style of playing (think bastardized fingerpicking--lots of figures and lines running through chord changes, not a lot of pure strum) 2. Martin 000-16RGT -- "auditorioum" size, much more workman-like tone than the Larrivee but really, really solid and tight sounding, which, as I suggested above, suits my approach to acoustic playing very well. The Martin didn't quite have the seductive quality of the Larrivee, for me, but I must admit that I went in a little biased toward Larrivees as I've played my brother's high end model (OM-09 I think) for a number of years and have always felt an affinity for it. I'd love to hear of experiences/impressions with either axe. These represent the outer limit of my price range (the Martin is going for 975, the Larri for around 1150). TIA and ASAP, as I might be moving on this at any moment, for all I know (you know the ways of GAS!).
Members Cldplytkmn Posted January 3, 2006 Members Posted January 3, 2006 man... you can't go wrong... regardless of your bias, it sounds like maybe the larrivee struck you a little sweeter. tiny, mostly unimportant factors are the micarta fretboard and bridge on the martin vs. the ebony of the larrivee... finish (larrivee is full gloss, that martin is gloss top, satin body)... the martin uses mortis and tenon neck joint vs. the dovetail of the larrivee (this one is uber-minor, i think)... also of note, you're comparing a mahogany guitar to a rosewood guitar, you could check out the 00016GT which also has mahogany, since you might just be a mahogany guy.
Members guit30 Posted January 3, 2006 Members Posted January 3, 2006 Sound like you like the Larrivee, had a Martin D-16GT once and liked it. Larrivee's have a special almost chime like tone which has it's own beauty, not my style, but it is very nice. I like dreadsJim
Members guit30 Posted January 3, 2006 Members Posted January 3, 2006 Sound like you like the Larrivee, had a Martin D-16GT once and liked it. Larrivee's have a special almost chime like tone which has it's own beauty, not my style, but it is very nice. I like dreadsJim
Members Magpel Posted January 3, 2006 Author Members Posted January 3, 2006 Yeah, you know, the Larrivvee IS a little on the chimey side, which is not what I thought I was looking for, at all really. That's why I called it seductive. I remember having the same experience when shopping for a used upright piano once. I went in thinking I favored dark/rich to bright/percussive, and after playing on nearly 50 uprights, found myself gravitating to a pinao that was the very picture of bright and chimey. Maybe I have a mistaken idea about my own sound aesthetics... But back on topic, my feeling about the Larrivee was that it had some chime, had a nice "opneness" compared to slight "boxiness" on the Martin, but that the Larrivee was not at all thin or unfocused sounding. I want a guitar with a somewhat "stiff" feel and sound, which I know is largely a function of action and string gauge. The Martin had that feel more, but I didn't find it to be a real lack with the Larrivee... I dunno. You've all been here before. Very tough decision. I'm going back tomorrow, hopefully with another guitarist on hand so I can listen to him play both.
Members Cldplytkmn Posted January 4, 2006 Members Posted January 4, 2006 compounding the dilema... they're both going to improve with time... the honest truth is that you can't go wrong if you find one of each example that you like... i dunno... flip a coin... buy used and get both... you're in a fortunate spot.
Members JasmineTea Posted January 4, 2006 Members Posted January 4, 2006 Go back for another 1-1/2 hours.
Members t60 fan Posted January 4, 2006 Members Posted January 4, 2006 Remember, the Larry probably was strung with Elixirs and so the bright sound has something to do with that.
Members Magpel Posted January 4, 2006 Author Members Posted January 4, 2006 Originally posted by Cldplytkmn you're in a fortunate spot. Of this there is no doubt.
Members adrifter2004 Posted January 4, 2006 Members Posted January 4, 2006 I have a friend that plays in our Bluegrass and Folk music band jams and shows. He owns a new 00016RGT, he purchased two years ago. He loves his 16, and has played it hard with a lot of use, and the guitar just shines with sound and quality. The micarta fret board and bridge is no draw back with the 16 series. It holds up well. My friends continued use of his 00016RGT shows no wear at all. Taylor has used bolt on necks for years, with no problems. Their sound and tone is well known, and it's the same with the bolt on necks of the Martin 16 series. I own a Martin D-16RGT dreadaught, purchased over a year ago. And it continues to play and sound really great. I use D'Addario Bluegrass phosphor bronze strings. I also own an HD-28, a Gibson Advanced Jumbo, and an Alvarez PD-100S.
Members t60 fan Posted January 4, 2006 Members Posted January 4, 2006 Originally posted by adrifter2004 Taylor has used bolt on necks for years, with no problems. Their sound and tone is well known, and it's the same with the bolt on necks of the Martin 16 series. Well, that's not exactly true, but Martin's bolt-on system is fine in it's own right. Taylor's is rather unique. See this link: http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Data/Guitar/Taylor/99NeckJoint/99joint.html
Members Magpel Posted January 4, 2006 Author Members Posted January 4, 2006 It's funny. I play with two other guitarists regularly, one of whom is simply built for Larrivee (he plays ehtereal, shimmery, fleet lydian stuff with a heavy Jeff Buckley influence). The other guy is custom built for the Martin, a more organic folk/rock, fat-fingered kind of player whose various obsessions include Johnny Cash and The Beatles. Both are really good musicians with good feel and a wide range of reference points, and both are bigger guitar fetishists than I'll ever be (esp. the Martin guy, who can talk at length about Hagstrom tailpieces). I've asked each to accompany me to the store tonight and play each guitar for me. Only the Larrivee guy can do it, but that' should be sufficient. He's psyched about getting a hit off my GAS, if you know what I'm saying. Anyway, I appreciate the comments here. Very helpful and reassuring. Keep 'em coming, as I won't be leaving until around 5! (PS: weird psychological effect, that has more to do with economic guilt than sound aesthetics: right around the time I committed to buying a new guitar, the POS I've been complaining about for 7 years now, an Alvarez w/cutaway and crap electronics, started sounding better, whispering, "you don't really need to drop a grand on a new guitar. It's the craftsman, not the tools after all." Then last night, I had the aforementioned "Martin guy" play my Alvarez while we were working on some new tunes, and the guitar stopped that nonsense. It's the tools too...
Members Cldplytkmn Posted January 4, 2006 Members Posted January 4, 2006 you should post here more often magpel, i've enjoyed your posts... just to pick nits for a sec, and believe me it has nothing to do with what guitar you buy, but the taylor and martin neck joints are worlds apart, and the martin neck isn't a true bolt on neck. its a mortis and tenon held in place with a bolt. in theory its the best of both worlds type thing... i'm still kinda partial to true dovetails just out of being somewhat of a traditionalist. regarding the larrivee 'ethereal' thing... the two guitars are braced different, larrivee uses symetrical bracing, and generally has a more balanced volume across the tonal spectrum, martins will favor the deeper richer bass. The larrivee's i've played (and the one i own) responds VERY well to finger picking and to strumming (i kinda bastardize strumming a bit like you say you bastardize fingerpicking). not to self-promote or anything, but if you wanna hear the style i play go to www.myspace.com/stemple i've got a few songs there recorded with my larri L05MT... when you described your playing style i thought some of my stuff seemed similar. I think Ls and slope dreads may suit you better than a D.
Members Magpel Posted January 5, 2006 Author Members Posted January 5, 2006 Meet my new friend... I was a bit less impressed with the 000-16RGT tonight, though both my friend and I agreed it would be the choice if playabiity was all that mattered. Funny. I feel like I chose the superior instrument, but not the kind I went in looking for. The Martin was closer to what I had in mind, which begs the question: why not wait and save and get an OM21 or a Larrivee OM-10 or the like? Good queston, but I had a rather arbitrary line in the sand defining how much I could afford for now and for the forseeable future. (I really like Seagulls too, so a very different sounding guitar is not ever very far away...) Now begins a long getting to know you period, one in which I attempt to toughen and blunt the L-05 sound a bit, perhaps by changing out the elixirs and trying some 13s. We'll see. Thanks for all your help. Thank you, Mr. Temple, for your lovely tunes that featured the L-05 so prominently and favorably. I'll be back!
Members JasmineTea Posted January 5, 2006 Members Posted January 5, 2006 My Larrivee came with 11-50 Elixirs. When I put my usual strings on, 12-54 Martin ph/br, it changed everything about the guitar. Larrivee scale is 1/8 or 1/4" longer than Martin, so I guess just be ready for the difference in sound and feel. edit: That is, if you're going from light elixirs to heavey uncoated.
Members Cldplytkmn Posted January 5, 2006 Members Posted January 5, 2006 mine really opened up without the elixirs... they sounded a bit 'choked' to me, so i suspect you'll be pleased with the results of the switch. congrats on your new guitar, i think they're incredibly well made and couldn't be happier with mine. now go break that thing in...
Members t60 fan Posted January 5, 2006 Members Posted January 5, 2006 Looks great. I hope to get one someday. Enjoy!
Members Magpel Posted January 5, 2006 Author Members Posted January 5, 2006 God, I love it. I do want to change out the elixirs, but not right at this moment, as I'm really enjoying their shimmer, even though I know, in the long term, I do want to blunt it a bit. I'm about to throw a set of Pearse 13s on my Alvarez, just to see what I think of the strings..hehe. God, though, I love the L-05. It's making my whole day glow in the way that only a new and intimate instrument can!
Members t60 fan Posted January 5, 2006 Members Posted January 5, 2006 I really, really, really love Larrivee "L" guitars. So versatile. So balanced. I cannot afford to be GASSIN'.
Members kwakatak Posted January 5, 2006 Members Posted January 5, 2006 Good call. IMO the mahogany L's are good for both strumming and fingerpicking.
Members tdempsey Posted January 6, 2006 Members Posted January 6, 2006 Magpel, Where did you try & finally buy your guitar? Thanks.
Members Magpel Posted January 6, 2006 Author Members Posted January 6, 2006 I bought it Alto Music, Wappingers. I normally (much) prefer their Middletown store but that one didn't have an OM-3 in stock, which is the guitar I thought I wanted! So I went to Wappingers, where I fell in love with what would become my L-05. PS. TDempsey, I'm wondering if you saw my first version of this post in which I mistook you for a guitarist and teacher by the name of TOM Dempsey...I'm an idiot, at least when I don't read carefully...thus the edit and the oops.
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