Members JohnnyCanuck Posted January 8, 2006 Members Posted January 8, 2006 I left this in storage one winter, unkown to me they would turn the heat off during the week and turn it back on the weekends; it would have gotten at times to -30 and then been room temperature, every week for that whole winter. I should have taken the tension off the strings but that's hindsight. I know it's not a great picture but I would appreciate any luthiers out there letting me know if this is repairable. I know it's nothing fancy, it's a '79 Yamaki 12 string but I bought it new, and it's one of those things that I will always keep for sentimental reasons - thanks in advance for any help.
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted January 9, 2006 Members Posted January 9, 2006 Hmmmmm....looks, from the pic, like the top is sinking on the bass side slightly. Is the action impaired or the neck twisting? If not, that's good! Is the top solid or laminated? If solid, then it can be repaired easily...if laminated, it's a bit more complicated, but it probably can be done.
Members DonK Posted January 9, 2006 Members Posted January 9, 2006 Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall Hmmmmm....looks, from the pic, like the top is sinking on the bass side slightly. Is the action impaired or the neck twisting? If not, that's good!Is the top solid or laminated? If solid, then it can be repaired easily...if laminated, it's a bit more complicated, but it probably can be done. Terry, I seem to remember you from the really old days...like 1999 or so, am I right? You are a HUGE Guild guy, correct? And you probably remember John Ou...
Members JohnnyCanuck Posted January 9, 2006 Author Members Posted January 9, 2006 Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall Hmmmmm....looks, from the pic, like the top is sinking on the bass side slightly. Is the action impaired or the neck twisting? If not, that's good! Is the top solid or laminated? If solid, then it can be repaired easily...if laminated, it's a bit more complicated, but it probably can be done. The action isn't impaired, it still plays great, nor is the neck twisted, I ran a straight edge on it and it almost perfect; it's also a solid top. Hopefully this picture is a bit better; thanks for the input so far.
Members DonK Posted January 9, 2006 Members Posted January 9, 2006 Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck The action isn't impaired, it still plays great, nor is the neck twisted, I ran a straight edge on it and it almost perfect; it's also a solid top. Hopefully this picture is a bit better; thanks for the input so far. It's hard to tell from the photo, but it appears that either:- the neck has lifted from the top, or the bass side of the top has sunk (as Terry said, i.e., as if it sort of wilted).- if the neck is playing as well as you say, then I have to wonder if that's because the neck has lifted away from the top, almost as if you had a neck reset. If that's the case, then you need a real neck reset to fix it, which will be expensive; a luthier would have to steam the neck joint to soften the glue, remove the neck and shave the joint and then reglue it to the top so it's flush again but at the correct angle (just resetting it to the top without shaving it would raise the action considerably and potentially make it unplayable)- if the top has sunk (meaning it's deformed, you could probably just leave it alone, or maybe shim the space between the neck and the top to make sure it doesn't get worse (you'll have to check underneath to see what's going on).- probably not a cheap fix unless you just leave it aone, i.e., shim it and live with the cosmetic deformity.
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted January 9, 2006 Members Posted January 9, 2006 Originally posted by DonK Terry, I seem to remember you from the really old days...like 1999 or so, am I right? You are a HUGE Guild guy, correct? Well, I've lost a little weight (insert rimshot here) And you probably remember John Ou... Ou is indeed hard to forget...wonder what he's up to these days? Originally posted by DonK It's hard to tell from the photo, but it appears that either: - the neck has lifted from the top, or the bass side of the top has sunk (as Terry said, i.e., as if it sort of wilted). - if the neck is playing as well as you say, then I have to wonder if that's because the neck has lifted away from the top, almost as if you had a neck reset. If that's the case, then you need a real neck reset to fix it, which will be expensive; a luthier would have to steam the neck joint to soften the glue, remove the neck and shave the joint and then reglue it to the top so it's flush again but at the correct angle (just resetting it to the top without shaving it would raise the action considerably and potentially make it unplayable) - if the top has sunk (meaning it's deformed, you could probably just leave it alone, or maybe shim the space between the neck and the top to make sure it doesn't get worse (you'll have to check underneath to see what's going on). - probably not a cheap fix unless you just leave it aone, i.e., shim it and live with the cosmetic deformity. Pretty much my take on it...if the action does get bad, there's the "quick-and-dirty" action fix option...take a thin saw and cut through the heel right where it joins the sides, then put a bolt through the heel, into the heel block...I've seen this done and it often works fairly well, although I've no idea what you'd do then if the action continues to get worse...pretty much a last resort for those w/ modest funds, I'd guess.As the action currently seems to be acceptable (to JohnnyCanuck), I'd be inclined to leave it "as is" until/unless further options are required...imperfections can give a guitar "character"!
Members bjorn-fjord Posted January 9, 2006 Members Posted January 9, 2006 Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck I left this in storage one winter, unkown to me they would turn the heat off during the week and turn it back on the weekends; it would have gotten at times to -30 and then been room temperature, every week for that whole winter. I should have taken the tension off the strings but that's hindsight. I know it's not a great picture but I would appreciate any luthiers out there letting me know if this is repairable. I know it's nothing fancy, it's a '79 Yamaki 12 string but I bought it new, and it's one of those things that I will always keep for sentimental reasons - thanks in advance for any help. I've never seen this happen before. It looks as if the neck has shifted laterally off the axis of the center of the guitar. Does that make sense? How about this, it looks like the neck has moved in such a way that the headstock is half an inch (or more) to the left of where it should be. Look at the alignment of the strings in relation to the fretboard. There is much more space on the treble side than the bass side. Here's my guess as to what happened: The guitar expanded and contracted many, many times with the extreme changes in temperature and humidity. Because it was strung to tension, the increased pull of the bass strings caused the neck to incrementally shift to the left with each change in temp/humidity. Over the course of months, the aggregate effect of these minute changes has resulted in some pretty severe structural damage to the guitar.I'm amazed that it is still playable. I am a luthier and I cannot begin to tell you how this could be fixed without completely disassembling the guitar. I assume that if the neck were removed the soundboard would return to its proper shape/alignment but that's just a guess.
Members guitarcapo Posted January 10, 2006 Members Posted January 10, 2006 The neck block might have come unglued from the top and back to allow that shift to occur. If that's the case it would be easy to fix things by adjusting the neck to the correct angle and clamping with glue injected in the right places. It's really tough to do a neck reset on those Japanese guitars. They are often epoxied in place and you can't steam out the joint. Does the neck seem to easily move around? Like it's not glued in place?
Members JasmineTea Posted January 10, 2006 Members Posted January 10, 2006 Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck The action isn't impaired, it still plays great, nor is the neck twisted, I ran a straight edge on it and it almost perfect; it's also a solid top. Hopefully this picture is a bit better; thanks for the input so far. It looks to me like he's talking about the crack by the soundhole, bottem left corner of the fretboard.Those pics are warped, like they were taken through some wierd lense.
Members bjorn-fjord Posted January 10, 2006 Members Posted January 10, 2006 Originally posted by JasmineTea It looks to me like he's talking about the crack by the soundhole, bottem left corner of the fretboard.Those pics are warped, like they were taken through some wierd lense. No man, the guitar is warped, not the picture. The binding, purfling, and rosette have all been mangled by the shifting of the neck or headblock.
Members Tralfaz Posted January 10, 2006 Members Posted January 10, 2006 Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall Ou is indeed hard to forget...wonder what he's up to these days? It depends...
Members DonK Posted January 10, 2006 Members Posted January 10, 2006 Originally posted by Tralfaz It depends... LOL, good one. Have you had the same moniker since back then (I don't remember it)?
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