where'd we go wrong

[Stophe88]

in light of watching the recent ukelele video, i downloaded some songs that got me to thinking:

how, with such a good path paved for us by bands like the beatles and led zeppelin and so many others and solo artists on top of that, did we end up at the music we hear produced today; full of repetitive power chords and chorus repeating lead guitar

there are the talented artists that i hear every once in a while, but they aren't in the spotlight like back then... it seems like all talented artists are less accepted now days

 

by artists i'm referring to guitarists of course

 

anyway, the point of this thread is to discuss where it all went wrong... why are the majority of guitar players of today half of what came before them

[JasmineTea]

Wow. No easy answer to that. I see controversy on the horizon. This aught to be good.

 

I think the record companies just regurgitate what sold last year, and sell it again as some other disgusting repackaged barf. Record sales were down last time I looked. They'll do anything to bump sales.

 

I'v been listening to Tom Petty's "The Last DJ" quite a bit lately.

[Cldplytkmn]

we live in a fast food world.

 

music execs don't want to waste time developing talent anymore. why should they when they can doll somebody up, hire an image specialist, get 'the matrix' to write them some songs, put them in a soap commercial, throw their song into a movie soundtrack, put them on SNL and sit back and let the money roll in from...

 

the fast food music fans who want what's easy to digest.

 

just ignore mtv and the radio and you'll be fine.

pick up a 'paste' magazine.

[Stophe88]

i agree with you both

 

i've noticed it a lot in country

going from johnny cash to songs like honky tonk buddunkadonk...

i've only heard that song once, so maybe it is good

but country has been pop-cultureized:(

[learn'r]

don mclain

bye bye american pie.

[kwakatak]

so true.

 

So when did the music die?

[Stophe88]

i'd say somewhere in the 90's, maybe late 80's

but it's still got some life left:

Coheed and Cambria(i'd watch the welcome home one)

Death Cab for Cutie

[Ruh916]

I dont think a generation has gone by where someone hasn't expressed the same sentiments as you.

 

As we grow older most people are less accepting of newer music, thus less apt to listen to it.

 

There are plenty of good musicians out there these days.

 

It's just that they're not as marketable as the ones who are more image then talent.

 

Just imo of course.

[rhat]

 

Originally posted by Stophe88 i agree with you both i've noticed it a lot in country going from johnny cash to songs like honky tonk buddunkadonk... i've only heard that song once, so maybe it is good but country has been pop-cultureized:(

 

 

 

There are some outstanding country groups as well as artists... there are some that pretty well all sound alike......its pretty well been like that in most types of music. One thing country music does have ,,,, good guitar players . great vocals and a pretty tight sound...... the lyrics can go from stunning to redneck boot stompin {censored} kickin fun stuff ...... those country licks are not easy to play .... nor are the harmony vocals....... you have to listen to music with an ear for degree of difficulty .... while the chord progression may not be that hard ,,,,, the total package takes some very good talent .. even if it all sounds alike to you .. rat

[emergency_pants]

There are more artists these days than there were in the sixties. Which does mean more rubbish artists but also more good ones too!

 

I'm assuminig we're talking about pop music in general. When you think about it, there have always been crap artists and good ones. It's the good ones which have staying power and remain in the memory.

 

That is, apart from crappy compilation CDs where only the rubbish gets licensed for inclusion because the rights are cheap.

 

No doubt there are some genres which are better than others... I've seen some AMAZING young bands recently at Jazz Cafe in London. Some african, funk and latin bands which blow alot of older bands out of the water in terms of depth and composition.

 

Alot of music is oriented towards clubs and dancing. That might be a part of the issue.

 

I think, most importantly, that even though alot of artists release shallow music to appeal to the masses and sell records for the labels and the producers, alot of them have (or develop) talent which comes through maturity, later in the career, when popularity is not so high up on the wish list. That's where the good stuff is.

[studyscoot]

 

Originally posted by Cldplytkmn just ignore mtv and the radio and you'll be fine.

 

 

This is very much the case in my opinion. Guitar oriented music itself isn't degrading, although a view only through MTV and most billboard lists would hint that it is. It is still possible for a quality artist to make it big...Jack Johnson's new album was #1 last week I believe.

 

I do understand where you are coming from though. The music industry is 90% marketing now, with American Idol and all that crap. Most of the popularity in this music is a function of the ability of those in power to get it on the radio and on MTV every half hour. I feel sorry for those that believe that music is as good as it gets.

[kwakatak]

Arguably the music was dying as an art form even before the late 80s. I listen to some CDs, cassette tapes and LPs that I still have from that time frame and I just can't listen to it anymore.

 

For some reason though the early 80s stuff is OK to me, but I think it was just as commercialized even back then.

[bembo]

 

Originally posted by studyscoot Jack Johnson's new album was #1 last week I believe. I do understand where you are coming from though. The music industry is 90% marketing now, with American Idol and all that crap. Most of the popularity in this music is a function of the ability of those in power to get it on the radio and on MTV every half hour. I feel sorry for those that believe that music is as good as it gets.

 

 

About TV and American Idol:

Taken for what it is - shallow entertainment - it's not so worrying.

Whats worrying about it, is the importance the wievers put in it - i.e. the amount of prime time it takes up compared to shows with real singers and musicians.

I don't get it. People seem to prefer watching non-talents struggling instead of artists who CAN DO THE STUFF.

Apparently, TV just isn't the place for music anymore.

Bummer

[studyscoot]

 

Originally posted by bembo I don't get it. People seem to prefer watching non-talents struggling instead of artists who CAN DO THE STUFF. Apparently, TV just isn't the place for music anymore. Bummer

 

It's all about the drama. We all love to watch car wrecks.

[bembo]

 

Originally posted by studyscoot It's all about the drama. We all love to watch car wrecks.

 

 

In that case I wanna be someone who sets music to car wrecking documentaries:p

[Dave W.]

Some of the most tasteful "new" guitar work I have heard is from Mark Bryan of Hootie. That kind of clean, lyrical playing takes a lot of practice. You can hide a lot of mistakes and sloppy playing by over driving a stack of Marshalls with a few power cords and machine gun riffs. I think much of it is about short cuts, it is a lot faster to learn how to make noise rather than music.

[oliB]

It's also the fault of the artists.

 

One of the problems is that guitarists nowadays learn to play like their favorite guitarist.

 

Most play in a certain style,led by examples,that stops innovation i think.

[Cldplytkmn]

i'm not really all that bummed out about it... i couldn't give a damn whether most people think that green day is talented

 

the problem isn't with artists at all... i don't think there's any lack of inspiration/innovation either... the problem is that the wrong artists are pushed on us by Apple, MTV, and Clear Channel. There is legit music in every genre, even rap. There is a band thats about to be shoved down our throats by Vh1 and MTV called the Fray... they're starting to gain momentum and i can just sense that they will be this years big 'legit' band. They're album is amazing, every track is a great song and a great performance. I got into them about 5 months ago, and figured they'd never get exposed. but its not like the songs on the album are going to change just because putty, spineless kids start liking them just cause they're video is cool. (haven't seen the video, fyi) I'm still gonna keep listening to the album.

 

Why let it bother you? I don't really get that at all... obviously there's alot of good {censored} out there, if you don't have the wherewithall to turn the channel when you land on MTV, then you deserve whatever musical hell you land in.

[mrlucky7]

To me it all comes down to the simple fact that record companies care about sales; not talent. It used to be that talent = sales but that was quite a while ago. There always were fast consuming "artists" that sold candy music but, it wasnt the norm. The real talent is what sold. With videos and MTV, this all changed. New factors like the "look" became very important and the cinematography (is that a word ?!?) of the song became a marketing selling factors.

 

Like any business, music is based on sales and marketing and to make it in the modern music business, you have to play what will sell, not what you what to play to make it as an artist in this business. There is still a lot of talent out there; its just that alot stay "underground" and dont get the marketing machine behind them or any airplay.

 

Just my rambling thoughts

[Stophe88]

my brain can't think right now...

 

 

Originally posted by Ruh916 There are plenty of good musicians out there these days. It's just that they're not as marketable as the ones who are more image then talent. Just imo of course.

 

i agree

 

 

Originally posted by Cldplytkmn the problem isn't with artists at all... i don't think there's any lack of inspiration/innovation either... the problem is that the wrong artists are pushed on us by Apple, MTV, and Clear Channel. There is legit music in every genre, even rap.

 

 

i agree

 

i'll just put it this way... there are plenty of good artists but that's not mainstream music's goal anymore(if it ever was)

and yeah i probly shouldn't give a {censored}, but being in highschool it's frustrating to watch 'appealing' music spread like wildfire

that's my opinion

 

if i'm rich one day. i will start my own record label and promote some real talent, and you know, save the mainstream scene

[tonedrops]

Good music comes from oppressed peoples. In the 80's and 90's, the average guy had it too good. Life's too easy. Take those same guys and make life difficult for em and they would have churned out some lasting music.

 

Actually some did. 'Cause some did and do feel socially oppressed. But not enough to create another golden age of music.

[d03nut]

Ok, my take on this whole "music sucks these days" debate is a tad different. Here we go:

 

I think we should absolutely extend our definitions of "talented" and "less talented" to all levels of the music biz -or any other profession for that matter.

 

Lets' say you only like 5% of music (acts) out there today. Couldn't the same kind of proportion also apply to the people in A & R as well? Those responsible for finding talent. I mean regardless of their short-term financial motives, they can "suck" at what they do too.

 

The only difference with "the good old days" is that -and it's just a guess- when your only goal is to make $$$$, it leads to the proliferation of a different breed of people, i.e. more of the less talented. Bring that over to some of the more crucial positions such as talent scoutin and you get the picture.

 

All IMHO, of course..........

[jackwr]

 

Originally posted by Stophe88 in light of watching the recent ukelele video, i downloaded some songs that got me to thinking: how, with such a good path paved for us by bands like the beatles and led zeppelin and so many others and solo artists on top of that, did we end up at the music we hear produced today; full of repetitive power chords and chorus repeating lead guitar there are the talented artists that i hear every once in a while, but they aren't in the spotlight like back then... it seems like all talented artists are less accepted now days by artists i'm referring to guitarists of course anyway, the point of this thread is to discuss where it all went wrong... why are the majority of guitar players of today half of what came before them

 

 

Actually the "good path" was paved before the Beatles. Even Elvis credited Bill Monroe and if you listen to the real oldies like "Heavy Traffic Ahead" with Earl Scruggs Banjo, defined a lot of early rock and roll licks. Beatles and Zep followed the good path. The 70's marked many busting up that path with a jack hammer.