String Theory (revisited)

[rhythmdoctor]

Yes, this is indeed another thread on strings.

 

I am primarily a flatpicker and if I do use my fingers, I'm really just strumming with my thumb. So basically, I am not a light player. I've tried Elixir nanos and polys and recently have been using the John Pearse. Also, I use medium gauge.

 

I guess what I'm looking for is the difference between the P/B and 80/20s. I've read on here that P/B offer a brighter tone or enhance brightness. However, I would like clarification on the term brighter. When I think of brightness when talking of guitar, I relate that to treble or the higher tones. I'm not sure if that's an acurate way to view it though. Can anyone offer me a better description of the difference between the 2?

 

I do not like the higher tone of the guitar. Yes, I like balance, but I prefer the bassy tone and also play more bassy. I can see how the term "brightness" may also mean clarity, which means brightness may not be a bad thing for someone like me who prefers the bassy side of things. I should also note that to my best recollection, I've been using P/Bs lately. However, I'm sure I've tried both over the past 13 years of playing without any real knowledge of the difference or trying to hear a difference. Only lately have I been more aware of tonal differences.

 

Anyways, I plan on changing my strings today and would like to have a better understanding on the difference between P/B and 80/20s. And based on the way I play, maybe someone could recommend a string? You can always click the link in my sig line for a soundbite of my playing style.

 

Thanks to all who offer guidance.

 

peace

brent

[Freeman Keller]

Before you change, record what you've got on. A little cheap cassette is OK. Change 'em and record again. Listen, comment, put the tape away for future reference. Let your ears decide what you like. Try to put it into words. Report here

[riffmeister]

brighter means more emphasis in the high frequencies.

even bass strings have a high frequency content, so the term can be applied to the sound of all the strings, not just the trebles.

I personally havent tried them, but my understanding is that the 80/20's are the brighter sounding string when comparing P/B and 80/20's.

If you like the sound of darker wound strings, the coated strings will get you there.

[rhythmdoctor]

Originally posted by Freeman Keller Before you change, record what you've got on. A little cheap cassette is OK. Change 'em and record again. Listen, comment, put the tape away for future reference. Let your ears decide what you like. Try to put it into words. Report here

Sir, airman Toland reports as ordered.

Well, 2 of the songs on my myspace page were recorded with my current JP strings. When I get enough info in this thread I can then go buy new strings and record with them and report.....sir.

[JasmineTea]

Bright meaning treble. The zingy sound of new strings.

Here's my take on ph/br vs 80/20:

80/20 sound very bright for the first few days and quickly become dark, with not much zing at all after about a week or two.

Ph/br start out with less zing and gradualy lose it over a few weeks, but they never realy sound "bad" till the winding starts going on the G string.

I've been using FastFret lately with good results. It seems to give a little of the brightness back to the strings even after they've been on for a few weeks.

[knockwood]

The constitutional difference is the percentage of copper vs. tin phosphide in the mix (92/8 - 95/5 vs. 80/20). Copper is a more supple, less brittle metal than tin. Higher tin phosphide vs. copper increases brightness but also stiffens the winds so they fray quicker with vibration from playing... so the initial brightness tends to decay relatively quickly. P/B strings are more mellow (my observation, anyway) and tend to remain tonally consistent longer.

My take: Pretty much exactly what JT said.

Recording is a good idea, too. Your ears don't have to agree with science. I recorded some short clips the other day to A/B two of my guitars and was amazed at the difference between what I hear from behind a guitar and what I hear from in front of the speakers.

[Kap'n]

Originally posted by JasmineTea Bright meaning treble. The zingy sound of new strings. Here's my take on ph/br vs 80/20: 80/20 sound very bright for the first few days and quickly become dark, with not much zing at all after about a week or two. Ph/br start out with less zing and gradualy lose it over a few weeks, but they never realy sound "bad" till the winding starts going on the G string.

 

 

Yep, but when played hard, my experience is that they go dead faster than that. 80/20 sounds good for one high energy set, dull the second, and simply thud during the last set of the evening.

 

I play pretty hard.

[rhythmdoctor]

Thanks for the responses. I don't see a reason to even try 80/20s because I'm a heavy player and it seems they would dull too quickly. Plus, I always like strings after they've been on for a week or so. But, I do want to try a set of snake oil strings and another brand I can never track down is the DR Rares.

I'll let you know what I come up with.

peace
brent

[knockwood]

Originally posted by rhythmdoctor Thanks for the responses. I don't see a reason to even try 80/20s because I'm a heavy player and it seems they would dull too quickly. Plus, I always like strings after they've been on for a week or so. But, I do want to try a set of snake oil strings and another brand I can never track down is the DR Rares. I'll let you know what I come up with. peace brent

 

 

I wouldn't rule out trying anything. If you like older strings (so do I), who knows - maybe you'll like the 80/20's after they lose their initial brilliance. Try everything! Strings are fun. There's an endless variety and they're all pretty different IMO.

 

Re. DR Rares, I use these all the time (12/54's) and can always find them at http://www.juststrings.com

http://www.juststrings.com/drstringsacousticguitar.html

[Hudman]

Originally posted by knockwood The constitutional difference is the percentage of copper vs. tin phosphide in the mix (92/8 - 95/5 vs. 80/20). Copper is a more supple, less brittle metal than tin. Higher tin phosphide vs. copper increases brightness but also stiffens the winds so they fray quicker with vibration from playing... so the initial brightness tends to decay relatively quickly. P/B strings are more mellow (my observation, anyway) and tend to remain tonally consistent longer.

Holy crap! Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night? You sound like Bill Nye the Science Guy!

Thanks for the info!

[knockwood]

Originally posted by Hudman Holy crap! Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night? You sound like Bill Nye the Science Guy! Thanks for the info!

Naw, man. My boring-ass day job is developing itty bits of hardware (buckles and rivets and snaps, etc.) for a fashion company. We use mostly brass as a base material, so I've been forced to get to know a little about the stuff (bronze is close). I flunked just about every h/s science class I ever took...

[Hudman]

Originally posted by knockwood Naw, man. My boring-ass day job is developing itty bits of hardware (buckles and rivets and snaps, etc.) for a fashion company. We use mostly brass as a base material, so I've been forced to get to know a little about the stuff (bronze is close). I flunked just about every h/s science class I ever took...

 

 

OK, that makes sense.

 

I was serious when I thanked you. Good info.

[rhythmdoctor]

When I got to the git store and saw the 80/20s, it all came back to me. I do recall when I tried these before and wasn't about to make the same mistake again. I have 3 gigs next week and can't risk it. So, they did NOT have the DR Rares that I've been wanting to try so I had to go with what I've been using - John Pearse P/B.

[Freeman Keller]

Originally posted by rhythmdoctor I had to go with what I've been using - John Pearse P/B.

 

 

FWIW (which ain't much), those are my choice on my two Martin dreads. My choice for my others would start a flame war so I'll keep quiet.

 

I will say that if you like P/B strings you should give the Nano P/B's a shot - and I would be interested in your comparison.

[rhythmdoctor]

I played the nanos for about the last year up until January when I switched to the John Pearse.

You can hear the difference in my link below. Darker Side of Rose and Dontchya Think were recorded using Elixir nanos and the other 2 songs were recorded using the John Pearse.

[min7b5]

I think 80/20's have more zing- more sheen in the high end. And more of a smile face in terms of mids. I also think they last longer. But I prefer PB's for their bigness, their increase in mids, and volume. The new Elixir PB Nanos are my main string.

[solitaire]

Originally posted by min7b5 I think 80/20's have more zing- more sheen in the high end. And more of a smile face in terms of mids. I also think they last longer. But I prefer PB's for their bigness, their increase in mids, and volume.

 

My oppinion of the 80/20 too, though being lighter I also think 80/20 does have sort of a "softer" tonality to it than PB. Bear in mind a lot of tone is due to the manufacturer and the ratio between core and wound wire resulting in different tensions for the same gauge.