Members recordingtrack1 Posted April 12, 2006 Members Posted April 12, 2006 What do you guys think about Cedar tops for a steel string dred? Any opinions out there?
Members Hudman Posted April 12, 2006 Members Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by suprswd same questions over and overr... That's funny coming from you.
Members Hudman Posted April 12, 2006 Members Posted April 12, 2006 Originally posted by recordingtrack1 What do you guys think about Cedar tops for a steel string dred? Any opinions out there? Cedar seems to be getting more and more popular.
Members Queequeg Posted April 13, 2006 Members Posted April 13, 2006 here's a quote from David Webber of Webber Guitars, Vancouver, BC.He builds good stuff, and I respect his opinion." From a builders point of view Sitka spruce is the toughest of all, I use it for all of my top bracing and prefer to use it on the larger guitars. Englemann spruce is somewhat softer, often lighter and carves beautifully. It works well on back braces, as back joint reinforcement and for all guitar sizes. It is easily driven and is my favorite spruce for nylon stringed instruments. As both of the spruces vary widely in stiffness, colour, and density no absolute rules apply. Western red cedar is the softest and lightest of the tone woods I use. It "warms up" the tone of a guitar and works particularly well with my maple guitars. Because of its softness cedar topped guitars are somewhat fragile in comparison to spruce. Nylon strung guitars respond well to a cedar top and sound good even when first strung up. No waiting. I match each set of backs and sides with an appropriate top at the beginning of the building process and adjust the proportions of the bracing according to the tops properties." for more info, see http://www.webberguitars.com/index.html "Fragile" and "Dreadnought" don't really seem to go together well. More like "spruce" and the "large body" guitars. ergo: cedar & dreads= no.
Members bjorn-fjord Posted April 13, 2006 Members Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by Queequeg "Fragile" and "Dreadnought" don't really seem to go together well. More like "spruce" and the "large body" guitars. ergo: cedar & dreads= no. I second this in the strongest possible language. I know all those guys with cedar Seagull dreads are going to protest, but whatever. There are 60-70 year old spruce topped dreads that are still going strong (albeit with resets most likely). I can pretty much guarantee that no cedar topped dread will last half that long. In my line of work I have come accross many cedar dread horror stories. Don't do it. You will be sorry.
Members fats Posted April 13, 2006 Members Posted April 13, 2006 I love mine, and wouldn't hesitate to buy another. So there
Members FingerBone Bill Posted April 13, 2006 Members Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by bjorn-fjord I second this in the strongest possible language. I know all those guys with cedar Seagull dreads are going to protest, but whatever. There are 60-70 year old spruce topped dreads that are still going strong (albeit with resets most likely). I can pretty much guarantee that no cedar topped dread will last half that long. In my line of work I have come accross many cedar dread horror stories. Don't do it. You will be sorry. In 60-70 years you won't give a {censored} mate. Cedar will sound good NOW. I'd buy a guitar on how it will be for me - not my heirs.
Members bjorn-fjord Posted April 13, 2006 Members Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by FingerBone Bill In 60-70 years you won't give a {censored} mate. Cedar will sound good NOW. I'd buy a guitar on how it will be for me - not my heirs. I have seen many cedar top failures under 10 years old. Of course I've also seen a couple spruce top failures in this range but considering the ratio of spruce to cedar guitars...Why take the risk? Go with engelmann if you don't like sitka.
Members Beachbum Posted April 13, 2006 Members Posted April 13, 2006 I've got a Sitka spruce top guitar and a cedar top guitar. I like them both. Different 'voices' with each.
Members Queequeg Posted April 13, 2006 Members Posted April 13, 2006 Originally posted by Beachbum I've got a Sitka spruce top guitar and a cedar top guitar.I like them both. Different 'voices' with each. OK. Well, there you go.
Members recordingtrack1 Posted April 14, 2006 Author Members Posted April 14, 2006 Okay, Thanks to most of you. I really appreciate the valuable insight. I think I will pass on the Cedar. I kind of thought it was probably too fragile. I wouldn't necessarily worry so much about it but I can put a guitar through a lot so I better not take the chance.
Members knockwood Posted April 14, 2006 Members Posted April 14, 2006 I had a friend once who bought a cedar-topped git. He hit a D chord and his head caught fire.
Members Stophe88 Posted April 14, 2006 Members Posted April 14, 2006 Originally posted by recordingtrack1 Okay, Thanks to most of you. I really appreciate the valuable insight. I think I will pass on the Cedar. I kind of thought it was probably too fragile. I wouldn't necessarily worry so much about it but I can put a guitar through a lot so I better not take the chance. don't give it up 100% though... if you like the sound of cedar better then follow through with it(people don't like laminate tops more because they are more durable than solid.. why let that factor change your wood)
Members Bocephus Jones Posted April 14, 2006 Members Posted April 14, 2006 Originally posted by bjorn-fjord I have seen many cedar top failures under 10 years old. Of course I've also seen a couple spruce top failures in this range but considering the ratio of spruce to cedar guitars...Why take the risk? Go with engelmann if you don't like sitka. I have a A&L Cedar top dread and it sounds great. So what if it breaks in 10 years? For under $300 I'll just buy another. If I was gonna get a guitar to take camping or haul around town I might get something different.
Members recordingtrack1 Posted April 15, 2006 Author Members Posted April 15, 2006 I ended up buying an Alvarez MD 80 that is Engelman Spruce. So problem solved.
Members kwakatak Posted April 15, 2006 Members Posted April 15, 2006 What about the Takamine GS330S? I hear that's supposed to be a decent cedar-topped dread, though the sides are nato.
Members Sweb Posted April 16, 2006 Members Posted April 16, 2006 I like Cedar. It does for sound what any other wood won't. That would be my only consideration for selecting it. It is nice to know the different structural life-expectancies of tonewoods but in the end the sound is all I go after. OT - By the way Kwak - I listened to your work - good stuff. I like the style too.
Members KATMAN Posted April 16, 2006 Members Posted April 16, 2006 If you love to fingerpick,cedar is the way to go. Cedar is a softer wood than spruce,it does crack easy.But that doesn't mean if you take care of it it won't last. I would get a good size humidifer,especially if you live in hot and dry climate. Heck,I'd get one anyway,it couldn't help.
Members kwakatak Posted April 16, 2006 Members Posted April 16, 2006 Actually, I heard that cedar dinks easy (is that an acceptible technical term?) but the tone fingerpicked is oh, so sweet. If you ever take up fingerstyle try some out. BTW, thanks Sweb. There's a couple more old ones up in case you're curious.
Members Sweb Posted April 16, 2006 Members Posted April 16, 2006 Yea, "dings" easily. I have a Cedar-topped classical and I'm always watchful because of that. But, it sure has a wonderful sound (especially with Savarez Hard Tension strings - thanks Riffmeister) that I don't think could be duplicated by any other wood. Kwak - Nice job on Vincent. I played that song (right after it first hit the radio) for an audience of parents and faculty during an intermission at a high school evening play. The older crowd hadn't heard it I suppose because they thought I wrote it. I think many of them went to get McClean's album because of that night. I downloaded your (Chet Atkins) version.
Members kwakatak Posted April 16, 2006 Members Posted April 16, 2006 Thanks again, Sweb. A cedar topped rosewood OM is in my future sometime. The Chet version was recorded with a Sand classical electric guitar and I've heard Muriel Andersen do a beautiful version on her classical as well. I'm not to the point yet where I can afford such nice guitars so I push my 30 year old steel string (Takamine F-360) to its limits with that particular song. It took me 6 months to learn it so it's one of the "gems" of my repetoire, though I'm not happy with the recording quality and rushed tempo. I plan on re-recording it when I upgrade to a Larrivee OM-03R and get a matched pair of condensor mics.
Members Hudman Posted April 16, 2006 Members Posted April 16, 2006 Originally posted by kwakatak Thanks again, Sweb. A cedar topped rosewood OM is in my future sometime. The Chet version was recorded with a Sand classical electric guitar and I've heard Muriel Andersen do a beautiful version on her classical as well. I'm not to the point yet where I can afford such nice guitars so I push my 30 year old steel string (Takamine F-360) to its limits with that particular song. It took me 6 months to learn it so it's one of the "gems" of my repetoire, though I'm not happy with the recording quality and rushed tempo. I plan on re-recording it when I upgrade to a Larrivee OM-03R and get a matched pair of condensor mics. Sounds great. I love those harmonics. Do you have the tab to that? Hook a brother up.
Members kwakatak Posted April 16, 2006 Members Posted April 16, 2006 Originally posted by Hudman Sounds great. I love those harmonics. Do you have the tab to that? Hook a brother up. I actually did have it transferred to PowerTab at one time but I lost it in the Great PC Crash of 2003. Sorry, man. FWIW it's in a back-issue of Fingerstyle Guitar Magazine (issue #52 I believe). There are a few other good songs in that issue, too including another beautiful adaptation of Don McLean's "And I Love You So".
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