Martin D-16's

[Vatican]

I've been reading about these, and from what I gather they sound great, except they don't project as loudly.

 

Is the bracing system so much cheaper to build that it justifies the loss in volume, compared to a D-28?

[JasmineTea]

 

Originally posted by Vatican I've been reading about these, and from what I gather they sound great, except they don't project as loudly. Is the bracing system so much cheaper to build that it justifies the loss in volume, compared to a D-28?

They cut more corners than just in the bracing. Trim, micarta, finish. The prices seem go up according to the appointments.

 

The D-16GT and D-16GTR seem to be the best bang-for-buck in that series.

 

I own a D-16GT and I like it a lot. Sounds good.

[Vatican]

 

Originally posted by JasmineTea They cut more corners than just in the bracing.

 

 

Right, but I don't think the other appointments are responsible for the reported loss in volume, right?

 

Not sure about the micarta tho. Not sure what it does.

[JasmineTea]

I hav'nt heard that they lack projection. Mine is loud enough, sounds like a boomy dred. I played a D-16 recently that was much louder than a D-35 in the same shop. Go figure.

 

Micarta is used on some of the 16 series for fretboards and bridges. Not a bad thing. It'll out last ebony, looks like ebony. If you buy a 16 series and it has a micarta saddle, change it to bone. Micarta's not much good for saddles, IMO.

[Vatican]

OK. Could you comment on what perceived differences the bracing might give you, since it's different from the D-18 and D-28 series?

[Whalebot]

16 series are hybrid bracing, an 'A' frame is added to the mix. You really have to find a diagram to see the difference. Both the d-18 and D-28 have the standard non-scalloped X bracing that Martin originated. They use higher quality parts like JT said, but that doesn't make them better imho. I liked my d-16r ove the d-28, it blew it away and looked alot nicer.

[the russ]

the d-16gt is loud as hell. definitely louder than the two D-28's I played in the same shop.

[JasmineTea]

 

Originally posted by Vatican OK. Could you comment on what perceived differences the bracing might give you, since it's different from the D-18 and D-28 series?

Here's my theory, but I might be wrong: The more complex standard bracing pattern creates many small areas on the top for vibrations. The scalloping of the braces causes those areas to overlap. Not sure how to describe what that overlapping might be doing, but we've heard the dif. My guess is it makes the tone a little more homogenous. The 16 series has less of these sections because it has less braces, and therefor a less complex tone. Not a bad thing. The 1 series has even less bracing and therefor would have a very bassy, fundamental tone.

 

But that's just my theory.

 

Here's a link to Frank Ford:http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/History/Martin/MartinBraces/martinbraces.html

[guit30]

Are you talking about the regular D-16 that goes for about 1500 new. I played one, they are heavier than the GT, have solid wood sapele back and sides, if you are going to spend that much, get a D-18

[Fstpicker]

Hmm...16 series "softer" than the standard series? From my personal experience with my D-16RGT, I don't find this to be the case at all. In fact, I find my guitar definitely as loud, and even louder than some of the standard series Martins I've played over the years.

 

Jeff

[Gretsch Fan]

To be sure the appointments go down with the price drops but for Martin that does not mean any overall quality drop at least not in the same sense as it does for most other makes. The 16s I tried before buying then passing along the 000 size were all very loud with excellent tone.

[Vatican]

A few of the D-16s have ebony rather than micarta.

 

Based on the responses in this thread, I'll have to give D-16s another try. Particularly the D-16R. It might be a great alternative to the HD-28, for price, and perhaps even preferable to the D-28 for performance as well as price.

[Whalebot]

+1 on the D-16R, I loved mine.

[valleyguy]

Another happy D16R fan here. I went out to buy a new guitar over a year ago, gassing for a D-28. Played everything for 4 weeks and came down to a d28 and the D16R. After an hour playing the two side by side, I actually preferred the D16R. By the way, I thought it was louder. That said, I'm still gassing for that HD28.

 

As an aside I also played the D16rgt next to the D16R and found the D16R richer sounding, but very close.

 

I've had my D16R for over a year now and have become somewhat irritated by a small annoyance. The top two treble strings have a metallic sound to them, and all D16s have it. It's almost like the sound of the string buzzing on a fret, but more mellow. Most people can not hear it, but if you're out playing them, see if you can hear it. Gotta use a pick to hear it, though. I've had it to an authorized Martin luthier. He heard it, changed the saddle, no change, we came to the conclusion that they just sound like that.

 

I'm still keeping it, it's still my first choice when I go to play at home.

[Vatican]

valleyguy ... for what it's worth, I think my HD-28 sounds a little too sharp sometimes on the B and E strings.

 

Also .... (I'm not a luthier), is there any possibility that the ringing is coming from the nut? Sometimes a poorly cut nut ... I think can be responsible for buzzing the string.

[valleyguy]

I suggested the nut change to the luthier, but he said it would not change the sound. I agree with him, since if you capo or barre a fret, the sound remains.

 

When you say sharp, I assume you don't mean out of tune, but bright.

[Vatican]

 

Originally posted by valleyguy I suggested the nut change to the luthier, but he said it would not change the sound. I agree with him, since if you capo or barre a fret, the sound remains. When you say sharp, I assume you don't mean out of tune, but bright.

 

 

Yeah, if you barre the first fret and the buzz remains, it's not the nut.

 

As for sharp, sorry, yeah, I meant bright. It's not the most perfect tone my imagination could conjure. There isn't the sense of distortion or buzz from frets, but the ringing note is just a little bright for my taste, despite the deep bottom which is also projected. I guess this is the province of steel string acoustics tho.

[Vatican]

So, D-16s are sounding better and better to me. Are they any heavier than the average HD-28?

 

If a D-16R is essentially the same quality as an HD-28, it makes sense to me to save money and get the D-16R.

[guit30]

pic of D-16

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Guitar/Acoustic?sku=514673&src=3WFRWXX

[Vatican]

overpriced?

[valleyguy]

That D16 has Sapele back and sides, but does seem a little high

[the russ]

 

Originally posted by Vatican If a D-16R is essentially the same quality as an HD-28, it makes sense to me to save money and get the D-16R.

 

 

they're different guitars. play them both. buy the one you like better.

[JasmineTea]

Originally posted by valleyguy That D16 has Sapele back and sides, but does seem a little high

D-16GT is still listed with mahogany. Word has it Sapele is good stuff.

[Vatican]

 

Originally posted by the russ they're different guitars. play them both. buy the one you like better.

 

 

 

i don't see your point

[Freeman Keller]

Vatican, I think one of Russ's points is that the are NOT "essentially the same quality". The 16 series Martins are very very good guitars, but they have a number of cost cutting measures - the MT neck, bracing, scalloping, lack of herringbone, and general grade of wood. Face it, the HD is half again the list price of the 16. Martin has cut some cost to make a price point guitar.

 

They sound different too. Choose the one that fits your ears, budget and needs. Both are great for what they are intended for.