So what's your excuse for sucking?

[d03nut]

Forgive my presumptuousnesslessfessmess.......But it's a valid question that needs to be asked. You been playin' long time, why then you no good?

 

It's time to look in the mirror -or in certain cases away from it- and really pinpoint the cause. Is it that the instrument itself is too challenging, that fingers aren't meant to do those things? Or then what?

 

Don't get mad, I'm just asking.

 

And if you can dazzle, lets' see a clip.

 

......cesspessresszess..........

 

Doh.......

[knockwood]

Lawyer {censored}ed me.

[Frets99]

Originally posted by knockwood Lawyer {censored}ed me.

gotta admit, I wasn't expecting that!!

[Frets99]

Because most days, I coudn't tell thedifference between practicing and noodling......

But that's okay. I still like to play!

[eyeball987]

Never really practiced. I can cover just about anything but I don't know any theory or out of the box scales. I just plunk around. I am OK with that though. Occasionally I get frustrated that I suck but life is too busy for me to do anything about it right now. I should have done it when I was in high school and college when I had free time.

[knockwood]

But seriously... It's a pretty interesting question.

Why do I suck?

Not sure whether I'd say I suck, necessarily. Certainly I am not good. Both ["suck" and "good"] are pretty subjective terms. I think I'm pretty decent for three years' worth of playing. So for the purposes of weighing in on this thread, I'll look at my suckiness as my very obvious and very numerous limitations. Reasons...

1) I'm stupid.
This is not to say I am not now and then capable of putting together a pretty pleasing sentence. The thing is, I have the moves, touch, the coordination - whatever you want to call it. But mentally the fretboard is an insurmountable mystery to me. I've tried lessons, tried teaching myself theory through books, tried absorbing various means of viewing the fretboard... Nothing sticks. Nothing. I was a horrible, horrible math student all my life. The fretboard to me is a math problem - and one I am pretty certain I will never solve, as simple as I know it is for many people. I think I am somehow dysgitlexic. I am in other words able to learn things only by rote. Intuitive, improvisational, extemporaneous playing is and I suspect always will be out of my reach.

2) I'm lazy.
Not in general. But trying to force into myself the aforementioned comprehension that has always eluded me is such a daunting prospect that I tend to say {censored}it and just revert back to my safe accessible stable of tricks... and thus I improve very, very slowly.

3) I am relatively hopeless.
I have very little faith in my potential, being that I am stupid and lazy and did not begin playing until I was 34. I look at this and think, "You'll never be {censored} on the git." And this kind of inescapable negativity makes it difficult for me to really push myself.

So those are my excuses. And in spite of them, I love the damn instrument and it has become THE primary obsession of my life. I'm not certain it would have changed anything, but I wish I'd discovered it sooner (I guess that's excuse #4: I'm old and senile).

[knockwood]

Originally posted by Frets99 Because most days, I coudn't tell thedifference between practicing and noodling...... But that's okay. I still like to play!

There was an interesting quote from Ben Harper in the last AG issue about the difference between playing and practicing. I don't recall it verbatim, but he defined practicing as taking something you can't do and working at it until you can.

I mostly noodle...

[Michael Martin]

I don't suck, exactly, but there are about 43.7 million guitarists who can do things I can't do. And I've been playing, on and off, since the 1970s. When I was 16, I had friends of the same age who were already at that point much better players than I am today. And I knew these guys well; we hung out all the time. It's not that they were spending hours and hours each day perfecting their technique--some people just can do this stuff and some of us can't. They went from total novice to very intuitive/fluid soloists in a matter of months, and I'm still not there, and probably never will be. I suspect it's very much like what separates great athletes from people like me. I'm in very good physical condition but am a sub-par athlete, not to mention a very slow typist. I suppose it's a motor-skill fingers/brain issue.

That is not to say that people like me can't improve and become non-sucky, but whatever we gain in skill is gained with considerable toil and repetition.

But there are compensations. I'm a very good songwriter. From what I've seen and heard throughout my life, I think there are fewer of us than people who solo beautifully.

[Hudman]

Lack of focus and motivation. I don't play in front of any one (besides my wife and kids). I am at my best if I have a reason to practice. If I know I will be playing in front of an audience I get motivated to stay focused and I practice. There's nothing like a live gig or an upcoming jam session to get me motivated.

Before I get with someone for a jam session I like to discuss the type of music and songs we will play. My noodling quickly becomes practice at that point.

[Frets99]

I don't think for a second that everyone has the same equal chance to be great on the guitar. It does come easier to some and all the practice in the world will not make some people guitarists. That's just the way it is.

But truth, there are some of us to whom it came relatively easy, who could have been better if we devoted more time to focused practice. The kind of practice that goes do it again and again until you can do it without thinking about it!

I know I could have. but I don't regret it. I enjoyed the things I did. I married and had children. Being great at an instrument involves a certain degree of selfishness. Hard to raise kids when you're practicing a lot. And usually, you have to justify practice by gigging........ It's about time!

[krisnrg]

I always tell people that I quit for 5 years. Right after I started learning I quit then I recently started and that's why I'l still a beginner.

[Michael Martin]

Originally posted by knockwood But seriously... It's a pretty interesting question. I was a horrible, horrible math student all my life. The fretboard to me is a math problem - and one I am pretty certain I will never solve, as simple as I know it is for many people. I think I am somehow dysgitlexic. I am in other words able to learn things only by rote. Intuitive, improvisational, extemporaneous playing is and I suspect always will be out of my reach.

 

 

I'm totally with you here, Knockwood. I too am lazy, stupid, etc...we are very much alike. Only I'm even lazier, because I haven't tried all the books and theory and such. Because I know it wouldn't help.

 

I think you may have identified something here--I was horrible at math, although I was always good at writing and drawing. I'm also good at "playing by ear" (hearing it and then figuring out how to play it without written music), but I'll be damned if I can solo or improvise worth a fiddler's {censored}.

[Hudman]

Originally posted by Frets99 I don't think for a second that everyone has the same equal chance to be great on the guitar. It does come easier to some and all the practice in the world will not make some people guitarists. That's just the way it is. But truth, there are some of us to whom it came relatively easy, who could have been better if we devoted more time to focused practice. The kind of practice that goes do it again and again until you can do it without thinking about it! I know I could have. but I don't regret it. I enjoyed the things I did. I married and had children. Being great at an instrument involves a certain degree of selfishness. Hard to raise kids when you're practicing a lot. And usually, you have to justify practice by gigging........ It's about time!

Exactly! I joined a fairly serious christian metal band after 2 years of playing guitar. We practiced 5 days a week and played out 2 or 3 times per month. We played a combination of covers and original songs. We had a 90 minute set that we were constantly changing around. My rock chops were better back then. Not to mention I was better at palm muting and pinch harmonics.

I know a lot more about playing guitar today. My fingers know more chord shapes and scales. I play more styles of music too. Unfortunately, I no longer play in a band and I never practice like I did back then (I also don't play metal anymore either - I don't even own an electric guitar anymore). Wife, kids, job, mortgage, etc., cut into my practicing time during the last 10 years.

[rhythmdoctor]

The terms "suck" and "dazzle", when talking about music, are subjective terms. I mean, on the whole, if you take everything that is attainable on the guitar, then I might suck. However, it's all about will and what your will will allow you to persue. For me, I never wanted to be a bad ass soloist, I am content being a very good rhythm player. My will was never strong enough toward soloing, therefore I am a mediocre soloist. However, my will to become the groove was strong, I can play the same 2 chords for an hour and have a great time. To each his own.

[kwakatak]

I suck because I'm a coward. Instead of taking risks and following my dreams I chose instead to play it safe and follow the path that was conditioned into me - well, more or less.

I was once told long ago that I could probably make a living at playing guitar, but I discounted that advice because it could have potentially changed a personal passion into just another mundane job. It would have also taken away my best tool for self-healing.

All too often I look back upon the path not followed with regret. Oh, well - at least I can still play with a pure heart.

[Michael Martin]

Originally posted by rhythmdoctor However, it's all about will and what your will will allow you to persue. For me, I never wanted to be a bad ass soloist, I am content being a very good rhythm player. My will was never strong enough toward soloing, therefore I am a mediocre soloist.

 

 

Remember Pete Rose? His nickname was "Charlie Hustle" because he was so persistent and relentless, as opposed to innately athletic. That was what I always heard...and then, I read about how Rose could watch the ball coming at him at 80-100 mph and discern the direction and speed of the rotation on the ball in order to predict how it would break. At that point I realized he was no mere mortal after all.

 

I disagree, rhythmdoctor--"will" is absolutely essential, but there's more to it than that, at least for me. I went in the direction I did as a guitar player based on what I could and couldn't do. I reallly, really wanted to be a guitar player, so I have tried very hard to become the one I am, since I can't be the one I ideally would like to be (that would probably be Mark Knopfler or The Edge)

[Dead Skunk]

I blame society. Society made me what I am.

But seriously...I never took guitar very seriously. As a youth, several people tried to teach me. I always had other interests or found excuses. I learned to be a "cowboy" strummer over the years but never really thought of myself as anything other than a beginner. My interest rekindled and faded time and time again.

Now that I'm a bit more serious, I found that it's not quite as easy as I remember. I'm improving, but not at the rate (I thought) I did years before.

But, I'm having fun. I enjoy playing. Who knows, maybe I'll break down and pay for a lesson soon.

[catdaddy]

Really interesting thread here folks! I'm reading all of your comments and realizing how similar my experience is to many of yours.

Frets99: the noodling vs practicing thing is without question a
problem that has plagued me. I'm sure if I had been
more disciplined with "practicing" I'd be a better
player today.

Knock: Yes its the stupid, lazy, hopeless, old and senile
syndrome that describes me best. I'm sure I've
got you beat in the stupid category. I open a
book on music theory and my brain cells start
treating me like Charles Laughton in Mutiny On
The Bounty. I'm so lazy that I noodled on guitar for
more than 40 years before even attempting to
put down a pick and try fingerstyle. Hopeless?
Well when you don't even try to apply some
discipline to your playing until you're 53 years old
I think that describes hopeless pretty well. I've
never known anyone else who ever started to do
anything seriously at that age, let alone become good
at it. Old and senile. Duh!

Michael Martin: I'm with ya brother on the motor skills issue. There
are those with that innate talent and skill that I
can only observe with envy. Toil and repetition
are the only things that I can hope to use to
achieve a modicum of medicrity and my laziness
has stood in the way of that for decades. I too
consider myself to be a good songwriter and
have applied myself to that craft in a way that I
never did with my playing. In that area I always
seemed to have some natural ability which
helped me to overcome my stupidity and laziness
and allowed me to be successful.


Kwak: For the sake of all of us guys and gals who never had the
ability you gotta spread your wings and fly. Don't keep
that talent in a bottle. Shake it up, take off the cap, turn
it upside down, give it a smack on the bottom and spread
that gift around. I, for one, would be thrilled to live
vicariously through your success.

[hempomatic]

I read this thread with a great deal of interest. I was pleasantly surprised by the level of honesty. I relate on some level to most of the responses. I do feel stupid, with a serious lack of theory. I have very little discipline and tend to noodle more than practice. But when all is said and done, I do LOVE this instrument. I play (play with) the guitar every day. I've had a few lessons, but when I get home, I tend to forget what I was working on.

I have recently started playing with a group of beginners from the Acoustic Guitar Magazine Beginner's Forum. That's given me more inspiration than anything else has recently. It's a lot of fun, and playing with others, watching their technique and learning new songs together. Highly recommended, this playing with humans thing.

ken

[guitapick]

"Suck" is a very subjective term.
My father wanted to be as good as Horowitz, was well on the way of doing just that, and then his hands were damaged in WWII.
He was never able to reach that level again and it frustrated him so much that he gave it up. Even though he still played very well. He just didn't have that "edge", anymore.
I think we "suck" depending on what our expectations are. If you want to play like David Russell, Keagy, or any of the many serious players out there, you need a lot of focus, energy, drive, and practice. If you're not willing to sacrifice like that and still compare yourself to those guys...then you're in for some serious disappointment. AKA: "Ye shall suck!".
I sound bad when I haven't practiced much or there are lots of distractions that are making it difficult to focus (and practice, just by coincidence). VERY often, it's a combination of the two.
When I'm performing, I don't have the luxury of "sucking" too bad. So I make sure (even when I get depressed) that I practice every day. Scales and arpeggios, if nothing else. That way, even if I'm not happy about things, I still have the chops to get through the gig. Then, when the skies clear, my hands are still strong enough to do what I want them to. The physical aspect's huge.
I've also stopped comparing myself to those monsters. The result is that I enjoy playing more and sound better as a result of it.
As far as dazzling: I'm back into performing after a layoff bringing up my daughter. (Best time of my life, by the way). Wrote a lot through the whole thing and, now that she's more independent and close to sneering at me, I'm getting my chops back into performing shape. Don't know if I'll dazzle...but I'll have a lot of fun and will post a link or clip when the time's right.
Great thread, d03nut.

[DonK]

Originally posted by Frets99 I don't think for a second that everyone has the same equal chance to be great on the guitar. It does come easier to some and all the practice in the world will not make some people guitarists. That's just the way it is. But truth, there are some of us to whom it came relatively easy, who could have been better if we devoted more time to focused practice. The kind of practice that goes do it again and again until you can do it without thinking about it! I know I could have. but I don't regret it. I enjoyed the things I did. I married and had children. Being great at an instrument involves a certain degree of selfishness. Hard to raise kids when you're practicing a lot. And usually, you have to justify practice by gigging........ It's about time!

+1, I could have written that about myself! My middle son - he's 11 - is learning guitar of his own volition, but by nature he's not one adopt a disciplined approach, so I find myself exhorting him about the virtues of practicing versus noodling. I've got to balance pushing him in the right direction with becoming a PIA to where he wants to give it up. I've wasted so much time noodling over the past 30 years that I don't like to think of it. However, for the past 10 years I've alternately played in the adult worship band in my church or led the high-school and middle-school bands. That's made a huge difference in focusing on practicing versus fooling around. Now I'm lucky enough that part of my family time can be spent playing music with my two oldest sons, 13 (drums) and 11 (guitar).

Oddly, I do have a REAL excuse though. I have a condition called cervical spinal stenosis: my cervical spine is gradually narrowing like an hourglass. I have constant pain and/or numbness in my left arm, though I've learned to compensate for the effects it has on my fretting hand, so it hasn't kept me from playing. Surgery is on the horizon at some point, but it's major, so my surgeon is reluctant to undertake it until its absolutely necessary (not sure how he defines that, but I'm ready now). There are as many as five vertebrae involved based on various tests I've had and continue to have, and they have to figure out exactly which ones to mess with. They'd prefer not to restructure all five, because that's just too drastic, but fix the wrong ones and I'll have gone through the surgery with no relief of the symptoms.

[Queequeg]

the guitar is such a mesmerizing and seductively satisfying past time, that as noted in an earlier post, you can while away the time banging away on two chords. This doesn't do much to promote growth as a player.
Putting my pick away and launching tabledit or Power Tab software helps to get me out of the rut. Then I put a folder on my computer's desktop called "Four Weeks in May" (or the current month).
Inside this folder are the tunes I want to learn that month. Doesn't much matter whether there is one or four tunes in there. Now, if I had started doing this years ago, I might be a real player by now. Unfortunately, this is a somewhat recent development.
(Better late than never.)

[rhythmdoctor]

Originally posted by Michael Martin Remember Pete Rose? His nickname was "Charlie Hustle" because he was so persistent and relentless, as opposed to innately athletic. That was what I always heard...and then, I read about how Rose could watch the ball coming at him at 80-100 mph and discern the direction and speed of the rotation on the ball in order to predict how it would break. At that point I realized he was no mere mortal after all. I disagree, rhythmdoctor--"will" is absolutely essential, but there's more to it than that, at least for me. I went in the direction I did as a guitar player based on what I could and couldn't do. I reallly, really wanted to be a guitar player, so I have tried very hard to become the one I am, since I can't be the one I ideally would like to be (that would probably be Mark Knopfler or The Edge)

I'll keep this friendly disagreement going.

I firmly believe that anything in life is possible if you're willing to put in the work. No one, IMO, has inate ability. However, what separates greats and average is the ability to realize what you want/love and then persuing that task.

The reason Pete Rose was able to see the ball rotate is because his awareness for baseball was maximized. It was maximized because he realized, probably at a very early age, that he absolutely loved baseball, and he was determined to be the best. His "will" to be the best baseball player was very, very strong.

You say your approach to guitar was based on what you could and could not do, but I beg to differ. Before you ever put a guitar in your hand, you could not do anything, yet your will pushed you to learn and master whatever it is that you do well on guitar. For you, and many of us, achieving a limited amount of success is enough for our will because most people spread their will over many facets of their life. For instance, I don't know you from Adam, but your "overall" will may be spread out amongst all your activities like family, work, guitar, etc....

For the Pete Roses and Michael Jordans of the world, their overall will was concentrated on one specific area. I picture the human will as a whole pie and that pie is the same dimensions for everyone. Some people allocate different pieces of that pie to different areas of their life. Others may only use half of their pie and let the rest sit and gather mold. And of course others may allocate the whole pie toward one aspect of their life.

This is what I believe anyways, and in no way reflects the thoughts and ideas of HC as a whole.

Enjoy the weekend.
brent

[rhythmdoctor]

Originally posted by Queequeg you can while away the time banging away on two chords. This doesn't do much to promote growth as a player. recent development. (Better late than never.)

 

Not to be rude, but honestly, this statement couldn't be more wrong. Maybe to you it won't promote growth. For me and maybe others it does. Music is about feel, emotion and passion and none of those elements has to be obtained through complexity. It may involve complexity and it may not.

 

I can't count how many musicians I know that can play all kinds of techniques, chords, scales etc... but have no soul. Soul comes from being the groove, not just replicating a time signature and a chord progression. Playing 2 chords for an hour and really getting sucked into the groove and changing the groove can be a very good way of growing as a player. It worked for me.

 

It really boils down to what you the individual finds important in music. If you find knowing theory, scales and being well-versed in all styles important, than that's what you should concentrate on to grow. For others, including myself, being the groove and transposing my personality/mind into original songs is important.

 

peace

brent

[Sweb]

I sucked yesterday. Today I played better. I've scheduled virtuoso for tomorrow. Lots of tomorrows left.

Just don't let the yesterdays catch up to you.