Harmonica question

[guitardustin]

I know this is the wrong forum but I know there are some guys that play harmonica with their acoustics

 

If I'm going to start learning to play harmonica what would the best key for beginners be?

 

My first guess would be C because of the no sharps of flats thing for learning purposes

 

Any input?

 

Thanks

 

Dustin

[recordingtrack1]

I don't even play harmonica but I have known a few over the years. Real strange bunch.

I think you are absolutely right. I also think the progression of which ones to learn on is generally from C to A to E to G if I am not mistaken.

Good luck!

RT1:thu:

[Old_Joe_Clark]

But you can play along with more blues if you get an E......and a C.

[catdaddy]

Check out this thread from earlier this year. Its got lots of good harmonica info:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1115398&highlight=harmonica

[JasmineTea]

Originally posted by Old_Joe_Clark But you can play along with more blues if you get an E...... and a C.

E harp would play blues in B. Key of A harp is for E blues. Blues harp is most always played in what's called "2nd Position". I don't know of any blues songs played in the 1st position (E harp played in key of E), but there must be some.

 

Blues in minor keys is played using the 3rd Position, ex: G harp for E minor. Actualy, I'm not sure if that's the 3rd position or what, but I know my example works for minor keys. So I'm adding a disclaimer to this post because I'm not sure how the positions are numbered. But I think it's like this for C harp:

 

1st-C

2nd-G

3rd-A minor

After that I'm lost for sure, but I think that's how the first three positions for C harp go.

[brahmz118]

I would recommend focusing on technique first, then later you can get the keys you need. Arguably a C harp is the easiest to learn bending on. The draw bends are a little easier on higher keys and the blow bends are a little easier on lower keys, so C is right in the middle, for the standard diatonic set.

The modern naming system for the positions follows the circle of 5ths. On a C harp:

1st = C
2nd = G
3rd = D
4th = A
5th = E
6th = B/Cb
7th = F#/Gb
8th = C#/Db
9th = Ab
10th = Eb
11th = Bb
12th = F

Notice there's no differentiation between major and minor. It's understood that you just use bends to get the appropriate flat or sharp scale degrees.

For many people it is easier to play in 1st position. There are some 1st position blues players, notably Jimmy Reed, who effectively used blow bends to get a blues scale on the upper end of the harp. Big Walter Horton, one of the greatest players ever, could do the same thing at will.

So get a C harp, and a good rack (a challenge on its own), and see what you can do with it. Learn your single notes and bends. You'll probably fatigue your reeds trying to bend at first with unrefined technique, so be prepared to buy another harp.

Play some blues on your guitar in G and try to find the right notes on the harp (most are inhale notes). Then play some blues in C and try to find the right notes on the harp. Try blues in other keys, and non-blues in other keys, and see what's most intuitive.

[Old_Joe_Clark]

Originally posted by JasmineTea E harp would play blues in B. Key of A harp is for E blues. Blues harp is most always played in what's called "2nd Position". I don't know of any blues songs played in the 1st position (E harp played in key of E), but there must be some. Blues in minor keys is played using the 3rd Position, ex: G harp for E minor. Actualy, I'm not sure if that's the 3rd position or what, but I know my example works for minor keys. So I'm adding a disclaimer to this post because I'm not sure how the positions are numbered. But I think it's like this for C harp: 1st-C 2nd-G 3rd-A minor After that I'm lost for sure, but I think that's how the first three positions for C harp go.

 

Oh.

[JasmineTea]

Originally posted by Old_Joe_Clark Oh.

Just trying to help, man.

[guitardustin]

Ok I ordered a hohner in C just to start learning...If I like it then I'll try other keys, but one more question:

Some of you have been talking about bending, what is that exactly?

Thanks

Dustin

[Dave W.]

The first thing you need to do is to learn how to play a single clean note. There is no way to describe exactly how to do it, it just takes perseverance. I tried for years, always giving up after a while. Then I took an adult ed blues harp course in the local evening school. There were about 10 guys and no one could do it either, but the instructor. So we all sat there every week for an hour working on it, then one night a guy showed up and had gotten the hang of it during the week. Everyone asked him the trick, but he couldn't explain, it just happened. Within two weeks everyone else had got it down and we went on to bending, which we basically learned the same way.
To answer your question, a bend flattens the note a bit and gives it that blues scale feel. It is easiest on the four draw hole and you kind of do it by making mouth shape like you are drinking through a straw.

[strat_predator]

Originally posted by JasmineTea Blues in minor keys is played using the 3rd Position, ex: G harp for E minor. Actualy, I'm not sure if that's the 3rd position or what, but I know my example works for minor keys. So I'm adding a disclaimer to this post because I'm not sure how the positions are numbered. But I think it's like this for C harp:

 

 

I may be off here, but this is why I think you'd play a G harp for songs in the key of E minor: most diatonic harps (except ones that are labled as minor key harps) have the notes for the major key of whatever key that harp is; Em and G major are relative keys in that they share all of the same notes. So to play the minor notes on a harp with the major notes, you'd play the major harp that is relative to the notes of the minor key that you want to play with (e.g. G for Em). If that makes sense at all. Basically, you just find the third note in the minor scale that you want to play in and play in that key (e.g. C for Am, D for Bm, etc).

 

I may be wrong though.

 

 

Also, as with guitars, I recommend that anyone start out with a decent harp. Don't buy a cheap $5-10 one as they'll be harder to learn on. I've been learning that from first hand experience. One of these days I'll get a decent one. I don't think harps are hard to play per se; there really aren't any wrong notes since they are diatonic. It's not terribly tought to pick it up and start playing Bob Dylan and folksy type melody stuff. However, they are hard to play well and take a LOT of practice to do a lot of the cool techniques. But so does guitar, so you're one step ahead.

[Mikeo]

Originally posted by guitardustin I know this is the wrong forum but I know there are some guys that play harmonica with their acoustics If I'm going to start learning to play harmonica what would the best key for beginners be? My first guess would be C because of the no sharps of flats thing for learning purposes Any input? Thanks Dustin

 

 

 

G , A, D probably.

 

I own every key including # keys, which is very cool for capo'ed stuff.

 

Mine are Hoher special 20's made in germany, my good friend uses lee oskars, they cost but more,and are made in Japan

[strat_predator]

Another little tip:

When playing a harp, DON'T suck and DON'T blow. It should be natural inhaling and exhaling into and out of the harmonica.

[JasmineTea]

Originally posted by strat_predator I may be off here, but this is why I think you'd play a G harp for songs in the key of E minor: most diatonic harps (except ones that are labled as minor key harps) have the notes for the major key of whatever key that harp is; Em and G major are relative keys in that they share all of the same notes. So to play the minor notes on a harp with the major notes, you'd play the major harp that is relative to the notes of the minor key that you want to play with (e.g. G for Em). If that makes sense at all. Basically, you just find the third note in the minor scale that you want to play in and play in that key (e.g. C for Am, D for Bm, etc).

That's what I do for playing in minor keys. Works great, IMO.

[brahmz118]

Originally posted by guitardustin Some of you have been talking about bending, what is that exactly?

 

 

In each hole, or chamber, of the harp, there are two notes -- one blow note and one draw note. Using standard technique, only the higher of those two notes can be bent, and it can be bent down almost all the way to the lower note.

 

For example, take hole #3 on a C harp. The draw note (B) is higher than the blow note (G). This means you can bend the draw note down to Bb, to A, and even to Ab/G#. You can also get all the microtones in between, which you may not want. The blow note will not bend, using standard technique.

 

If you look at hole #8, your blow note (E) is higher than the draw note (D). This means you blow bend to get the Eb. The draw note will not bend, using standard technique.

 

To bend a note, you need to master airtight single note playing first. Then you have to learn to adjust your embouchure (mouth shape) to alter the flow of air.

 

Here's an exercise -- pucker up and blow on the back of your hand. First try to get the air as cool as possible, then try to get it as warm as possible. To get cool air, the air flow is probably focused around your lips. To get warm air, you probably use the back of your throat. If you can become aware of the change in your mouth and throat as you shift from cool to warm, then you will start to understand what you have to do to go from an unbent note to a bent note. Once you can do it on the exhale, practice it on the inhale (you won't have the temperature change as a guide obviously). In my case, my tongue also moves from the front of my mouth to the back when I'm bending.

 

As others have mentioned, 4th position is definitely a useful position, because it is the relative minor of the key of the harp. However, the tonic doesn't exist in the low register without bending. That is, to get a low A on a C harp, you need to be an accurate bender -- you have to bend 3-draw down from B to A, not too much and not too little. Some people actually prefer this, because then you can get some cool vibrato effects by bending the A up and down. But if you can't hit it dead on, then it's hard to sound convincing in that key.

 

There is a new harp by Hohner called the XB40, which allows every note to be draw-bent and blow-bent using standard technique. I haven't tried one yet, but I don't think I would recommend it for a beginner. Once you have mastered the short harp, this is just one of the many options for achieving full chromaticity.

[Dave W.]

One thing I will add is that the worst piece of advice on blowing a single note was to purse your lips together very hard and make a tiny hole. It was in a book by Tony "Little Son" Glover and it wasted years of my time, that's why I still remember his name. For me, blowing a single note is about the shape of the inside of your mouth focusing a stream of air down to a small diameter. I can get a clean single note with a 3/8" hole between my lips, and the harmonica 1/4" away. Not that I play like that, but just to point out that tightly forcing your lips to a 1/8" hole, and pressing hard on the harp is not necessary. It was quite a revelation to me.

[hrhodes3]

go with c

[Old_Joe_Clark]

I joined this site once and learned a little.

http://www.harmonicalessons.com/index.html