OT - why I won't be importing guitars to the States

[Etienne Rambert]

Because the quality of the oil paintings over here is absolutely stunning.

 

These aren't prints. They are hand-painted oil paintings, copies of European masterworks.

 

I've got Ingres' Napoleon hanging over my bed. Life-sized. He cost me less than the guitars I bought here.

[Hudman]

What does any of this post have to do with you not exporting guitars to the USA?

[kwakatak]

Copyright infringement, perhaps?

 

I dunno - please elaborate, marcellis.

[Sweb]

 

Originally posted by marcellis Because the quality of the oil paintings over here is absolutely stunning. These aren't prints. They are hand-painted oil paintings, copies of European masterworks. I've got Ingres' Napoleon hanging over my bed. Life-sized. He cost me less than the guitars I bought here.

 

 

I have watched those oil painting sweat-shops in operation. One person starts it, passes it to the next person, etc., etc., until the painting is done. It is actually finished by one person who ties it all together with the finishing touches. It doesn't stop. It's like a production line. The first person starts one painting, passes it to the next person, and then begins the next (different subject, artist, etc.) in a 10 hour day work shift. The better sweat shops actually produce some pretty fabulous reproductions. By the way, there's a lot of child labor that goes into those things, if that means anything to you. The shops I saw were in Korea and the Philippines. The kids are involved in stretching canvas around frames and assembly stuff.

[Cldplytkmn]

Originally posted by Sweb I have watched those oil painting sweat-shops in operation. One person starts it, passes it to the next person, etc., etc., until the painting is done. It is actually finished by one person who ties it all together with the finishing touches. It doesn't stop. It's like a production line. The first person starts one painting, passes it to the next person, and then begins the next (different subject, artist, etc.) in a 10 hour day work shift. The better sweat shops actually produce some pretty fabulous reproductions. By the way, there's a lot of child labor that goes into those things, if that means anything to you. The shops I saw were in Korea and the Philippines. The kids are involved in stretching canvas around frames and assembly stuff.

 

{censored} child labor... i need ART

[Sweb]

Originally posted by Cldplytkmn {censored} child labor... i need ART

 

Yea, what the hell...

[Etienne Rambert]

sweb:"I have watched those oil painting sweat-shops in operation. One person starts it, passes it to the next person, etc., etc., until the painting is done. "

----

 

Sweb, a couple of questions.

 

1. Have you been to Vietnam before?

 

2. If yes, have you visited the Gia Tan art gallery on the corner of Le Loi & Pasteur in downtown Ho Chi Minh City?

 

Just curious.

 

I invite you to visit. But you pay your own ticket. You'll find there are no children working there.

 

This painting was done entirely by Mr. Tan. I watched it being painted.

 

He has art students in his loft. He has another master painter working downstairs.

 

All are adults.

 

None appear to be idiots. But who knows, one or two might be just as prone to making idiotic overgeneralizations as you are.

[bigby]

 

Originally posted by Hudman What does any of this post have to do with you not exporting guitars to the USA?

 

 

+1?

[Etienne Rambert]

Vietnam is the only country in East Asia with a 200+ year old tradition of studying European art.

 

That coupled with the very low prices over here means:

 

1. The oil paintings are such fabulous bargains.

 

2. Also, oil paintings are rolled up in tubes & are a lot cheaper to ship than guitars.

 

But these responses have reminded me of the main reason I won't be doing it.

 

3. My experience leads me to believe that art buyers generally aren't idiots.

 

Thanks for your time. Sorry to interrupt whatever it was you were doing.

 

originally posted by me: Sweb, a couple of questions. 1. Have you been to Vietnam before? 2. If yes, have you visited the Gia Tan art gallery on the corner of Le Loi & Pasteur in downtown Ho Chi Minh City? Just curious. I invite you to visit. But you pay your own ticket. You'll find there are no children working there. This painting was done entirely by Mr. Tan. I watched it being painted. He has art students in his loft. He has another master painter working downstairs. All are adults. None appear to be idiots. But who knows, one or two might be just as prone to making idiotic overgeneralizations as you are.

[Etienne Rambert]

Ah, an intelligent question:

 

kwakattack:

 

"Copyright infringement, perhaps?

 

I dunno - please elaborate, marcellis."

_____

 

In some cases - yes. It certainly could be.

 

In the case of Ingres' Napoleon, it's not.

 

Copyright protection today, lasts 75 years beyond the life of the artist. The original artist here, Jean-Auguste-Dominique Ingres (French, 1780

[Hudman]

Are you trying convince us or yourself that Vietnam is a great place to live?

 

Just wondering......

[Meth_1701]

I'm new here. Latelife newbie learning classical.

 

Marcellis, is there any luthier in Saigon, or elsewhere in V, making good quality classical guitars?

 

Vietnam by the way is a great place to visit.

[Etienne Rambert]

Personally, I have not tried any classical guitars here yet. My luthier has a classical made with Koa wood in his display case. But I haven't played it.

 

I have a friend who's a Flamenco guitar player from SF coming to check out my guitars ngay mai (tomorrow).

 

After that, I'll probably make a trip with him to Nguyen Thien Thuat Street (Luthier Street) He's interested in the native instruments too.

-------

 

Are you trying convince us or yourself that Vietnam is a great place to live? Just wondering......

 

 

I'm not convinced it's a great place to live. The traffic, pollution, here are all out of control.

 

But if you're a single white guy with a western-world income, you could do a lot worse than Vietnam - and probably will.

 

It's a hell of a great place to go shopping though. I'm probably trying to convince you of that. I'm already a believer.

 

For people who want peace & quiet & serenity, then Saigon a' go go ain't the place they wanna be.

 

Great place to shop though. It's what Hong Kong was 50 years ago.

[d28andm1911a1]

 

Vietnam by the way is a great place to visit.

 

 

Been there done that, got the bullet hole.

[Sweb]

 

Originally posted by marcellis sweb: "I have watched those oil painting sweat-shops in operation. One person starts it, passes it to the next person, etc., etc., until the painting is done. " ---- Sweb, a couple of questions. 1. Have you been to Vietnam before? 2. If yes, have you visited the Gia Tan art gallery on the corner of Le Loi & Pasteur in downtown Ho Chi Minh City? Just curious. I invite you to visit. But you pay your own ticket. You'll find there are no children working there. This painting was done entirely by Mr. Tan. I watched it being painted. He has art students in his loft. He has another master painter working downstairs. All are adults. None appear to be idiots. But who knows, one or two might be just as prone to making idiotic overgeneralizations as you are.

 

 

Good. That is, I stand corrected and I must say enlightened.

 

No, I have not been to Vietnam. It was not the popular place to go back in the day. Crazy how things change so much in one's lifetime.

[angus_old]

your girlfriend is 8, right?

[Etienne Rambert]

onbongos: "your girlfriend is 8, right?"

----

 

You've got me confused with Gary Glitter.

 

Add twenty years to your starting number and you're about right. She's still too young for me though. I wish she'd pick on someone her own age.

 

Sorry I got pissed sweb. But I'm continually amazed at how people think. I experienced the same thing when I wrote about my luthier & his hand-made guitars.

 

Most of the comments I got pertained to instruments being sold on EBay, (my luthier doesn't sell on Ebay), that are made in Taiwan (My luthier is in Vietnam, a different country from Taiwan).

 

It was all just so ****ing off-the-wall.

 

I don't know anything about child labor in the Philippines. I know a lot about the art that comes out of the Gia Tan art gallery on the corner of Le Loi & Pasteur.

 

I don't know anything about guitars being sold on EBay that are made in Taiwan.

 

I know a lot about the guitars made & sold at the Tam Hiep Luthier Shop on Nguyen Thien Thuat Street in District 3, Saigon.

[JasmineTea]

Marcellis, I for one don't have a problem with you, I enjoy your threads, they're always entertaining if nothing els. But for some reason you draw a lot of fire.

[babablowfish]

Not to beat a point into the ground, but you still haven't explained "why I won't be importing guitars to the States" and what that has to do with gifted Vietnamese artists.

[Etienne Rambert]

babablowfish (good name for a band), scroll up you'll find:

 

 

1. The oil paintings are such fabulous bargains. 2. Also, oil paintings are rolled up in tubes & are a lot cheaper to ship than guitars. But these responses have reminded me of the main reason I won't be doing it. 3. My experience leads me to believe that art buyers generally aren't idiots. Thanks for your time. Sorry to interrupt whatever it was you were doing.

 

 

Concerning #3, there is a lot of subjective stuff that is bundled up inside of a person's perception of an acoustic guitar. It's not entirely rational.

There really isn't that much subjectivity about a life-sized hand-painted reproduction of one of Ingres' or David's Napoleon.

 

Not only that, it's unfortunate, but a lot of guitarists are idiots. There. I've said it. That's my experience. Sorry if you disagree.

 

When you mix the unrealistic subjective expectations with a poor education & generally low intelligence, you've got the recipe for a disappointed buyer. That leads to whining.

 

The sound of idiots whining is one I'll never get used to. I don't want to get used to that sound.

 

I don't want Mr. Nguyen Van Minh to listen to it too. He'll have a lower opinion of Americans than he may already have. That's why I've only given his name & contact info out on request.

----

 

kwakattak's question about copyright infringement is a good one. It's one I'll have to deal with. I'll need to limit myself to public domain paintings. That excludes almost every artist who was alive in the 20th Century.

 

Since I'm a big fan of de Chirico & the Surrealists, I can't import the paintings I love the most.

 

J.T., I'm happy to draw fire.

 

Voltaire said he had only one prayer, "Lord, make my enemies look like idiots."

 

I like that.

[JasmineTea]

...in this, the best of all possible worlds...

[babablowfish]

So your extremely low opinion of guitarists and the guitar-playing American consumer leads you to preclude your importing hand-made Guitars from Vietnam. In other words you are so sure that these nitwits (us) could never appreciate the quality of these fine instruments and would only whine and pester you and the poor Luthier that you see this obnoxious behavior as far outweighing any economic advantage that might accrue. Have I got that right? If so I guess I must be one of those idiots because I couldn't see how this point was implicit in any of your previous posts. Thanks for clarifying, though. Now I guess I'll just go back to playing my Esteban and then later on I'll hop into my Yugo and go to work at the stupid-factory.

[Etienne Rambert]

babablowfish:"Now I guess I'll just go back to playing my Esteban and then later on I'll hop into my Yugo and go to work at the stupid-factory."

----

 

You are right Baba. My low opinion is not justified. After carefully considering your post, I've decided to turn over a new leaf.

 

Henceforth, I shall be Mr. Well-Intentioned and Pleasant from now on around in the Acoustic Guitar Forum. After all, aren't we all well-intentioned and pleasant here at HC?

 

Thanks for showing me the error of my ways. And congratulations on your Esteban purchase. At least you're not playing an Ovation, eh?

 

By any chance, do you play the Blues?

I think the Blues is just swell these days. I enjoy listening to acoustic players playing old Blues songs. It's such a pleasant way to pass the time.

 

 

[Hudman]

I for one feel that the HC Acoustic Forum IS mostly made up of of people with good intentions and pleasant attitudes. Of course there are exceptions. Some folks tend to be a wee bit bitter about their lives and come here to share their cheer.

 

Knock-off oil paintings and guitars may not export well, but it's good to see sarcasim does.

 

I'm going go listen to some acoustic blues.

[Etienne Rambert]

Small correction, the paintings are knock-off.

 

The guitars are real.

 

And I'm sincere here.

I'm turning over a new leaf.

Henceforth, I shall enjoy the Blues*

and I shall be more compassionate & sympathetic to idiots** when they start whining.

 

I'll still pass on importing guitars though. I'll let the big stores handle that.

 

Buying & selling paintings for me, would be what Vietnamese call a lao dong cua tinh yeu. It's something I would really enjoy, perhaps even more than listening to the Blues.

 

 

___________

Footnotes:

 

*Unless of course, it's played on Ovations.

 

**In fact, I'll no longer refer to such people as idiots. I shall call them "gifted".