Yet another bridge saddle intonation procedure

[nip]

DESCRIPTION: Basic idea is to just lower tension of one string at a time, remove it from slot, remove material from slot, and put string back and tune it to pitch.

 

 

PROLOG: I don't understand why anybody with an acoustic is settling for anything less than as perfectly intonated guitar. Acoustics put me off for many years because of it until I found a way that works perfectly and I can do by myself.

 

Nothing puts me off more from playing than a never in tune instrument.

 

I've done 4-5 saddles with this technique with good result.

 

PREPARATION: To get good result the guitar need to be tuned up to have the neck in the bow it should be and string action to be what you are aiming for. And neck relief should be correct at this point to or that need to be addressed before anything else. So guitar should have the playability you want, even if out of tune all the time.

 

A blank bridge saddle is in place. If string action was good on old saddle use it as a raw model for the new one. Make string slots as deep as needed to make it rest over the full width(You may call it thickness or depth I don't know).

 

When making slots the 1st and 6th string usually goes naturally into place and you can make the slot when tuning up the guitar, and you easily can move the string sideways. The rest of the strings might need a slot slightly beside the natural spot it gets just by increasing tension of string to make them all on an even distance from each other.

 

TOOLS: Scalpel or sharp knife or a file with triangular shape. When removing material in a string slot on front(towards neck) the tool just have to be up to the job for the saddle material you've got. It may also be a rotating filing tool(thinking of getting one myself).

 

A tuner with preferably a needle or stroboscope type where you can see the slightest change in pitch. Tuners with LEDs you may forget about using.

 

 

STEPS FOR OPERATION MYOWNSADDLE:

 

Starting point is that strings are leaving the bridge saddle on the front edge of saddle. So last resting point before string is in free air is on the front towards neck.

 

So the procedure below will just remove material in front of saddle to possibly make it rest more towards the pins depending of how sharp it is.

 

a) Usuall procedure flageolet in 12th fret and fretted 12th is compared. Don't overdo fretting the note, just use pressure like a normal playing position would.

 

Some prefer doing it on other frets( if it was 15th, 19th or I don't know which, I never tried it).

 

b) If fretted note is sharp material in frontpart of saddle slot need to be removed.

 

(If fretted is flat well then you are in trouble because you cannot make string rest more toward neck than it already is.)

 

If perfect in comparison you are done with that string and continue with next string.

 

When removing material from saddle it's vital that only strictly front material is removed, not from top. If from top string action would be affected.

 

c) Now just lower tension of the string so you can move it out of the slot to the side, and maybe enought to get it over to the next stringslot to be out of the way.

 

d) Remove not more than 0.5mm or so at a time with your prefered tool. Cutting small flakes sideways with scalpel, or filing or whatever. Do it gently not make marks on the bridge itself. And remember strictly front only not to affect highest point string is resting on.

 

e) Tune the string up to correct pitch, and repeat steps a) to d) until done with all strings.

 

That's it. Works every time. The hard part is really preparation, the intonation is fairly easy.

 

Hope it inspires somebody to try.

[postalsock]

im considering it....

[Hudman]

The guitar is an imperfect instrument. You will never get perfect intonation. It's impossible.

[JasmineTea]

From the sticky:

 

Edit: The saddle should have the proper radius prior to setting intonation.

 

Take a saddle blank that's flat on the top, not rounded, put it in the bridge slot. Take the core of a low E string (unwound) and lay it on top of the saddle, under the strings so the strings sit on top of the core, as though it's part of the saddle. Check it out- the core is sitting on top of a flat saddle and can be moved forward and backward to change the length of the string. When you find the sweet spot by moving it and checking it, mark the flat top of the saddle on both sides of the core, do this for each string. When you're done, each string is marked on the top of the flat saddle, all you gotta do is file away the marks and round it off a bit.

[markwayne]

 

When you find the sweet spot by moving it and checking it, mark the flat top of the saddle on both sides of the core, do this for each string. When you're done, each string is marked on the top of the flat saddle, all you gotta do is file away the marks and round it off a bit.

 

 

That's the simplest technique I've seen yet and, therefore, brilliant!

[nip]

Originally posted by JasmineTea From the sticky: Edit: The saddle should have the proper radius prior to setting intonation. Take a saddle blank that's flat on the top, not rounded, put it in the bridge slot. Take the core of a low E string (unwound) and lay it on top of the saddle, under the strings so the strings sit on top of the core, as though it's part of the saddle. Check it out- the core is sitting on top of a flat saddle and can be moved forward and backward to change the length of the string. When you find the sweet spot by moving it and checking it, mark the flat top of the saddle on both sides of the core, do this for each string. When you're done, each string is marked on the top of the flat saddle, all you gotta do is file away the marks and round it off a bit.

 

To get a rough setting you might start with that. The string will be in another position though, than the final slot, and marking first and grinding after this will not be as accurate. It's a very precise operation with intonation, and my suggested technique is as accurate as you want it to be.

 

As stated in my initial prologue many think they have to make do with a rough setting for acoustics. Are there any premanufactured bridges for electrics, well there used to be, yes(I had a Hofner once in the 60's), but close to all bridges are fully adjustable today. But it's very common on acoustics still.

 

That it developed more for electrics may be partly because an distorted guitar produces a lot of unnatural harmonics that sound really dreadful the worse intonation is and doing chords.

 

I'm saying you don't have to make do with rough. You can set the highest demand on accuracy on acoustics as well as the bridges on electrics allow.

 

My current acoustic(I only got one now) came with clearly premade saddles, nothing was individual about it. I changed strings and nothing is in place anymore.

 

I used to hesitate and feel very uncomfortable with getting to grind into parts of the guitar, but found it was well worth it and much easier than expected.

 

I saw tables at graphtech on the premade bridgesaddles of all kinds(I just ordered some Tusq to test), and I reacted to this and they are making such a big deal out of it. You need to know which strings and so on. It's as easy as moving string and grind a bit and put it back and test instead of working up steam over looking in tables and probably still just getting a rough intonation.

 

If you are happy with what you got on your best acoustics, don't touch a thing. I'm just making a point, if you are not happy, this is easy to make perfect(well, as long as it goes for a tempered instrument like guitar).

 

I wanted to put the drama out of this.

 

My ears are very sensitive to non-clean chords and it takes quite some enjoyment out of playing the acoustics if not good. I used to prefer the electrics because they always were better in tune.

[JasmineTea]

 

Originally posted by nip I wanted to put the drama out of this.

No drama, Nip. You're ok with me.

 

I got the method I posted from a luthier who was at one time employed by http://www.gruhn.com/. I figure if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

[postalsock]

my buddy tried it ill tell you how it turns out.

[Freeman Keller]

Nip's method should work well, JT's might be a little easier. When Kimsey set the neck on my 12 string he compensated each string of each course individually and I've always been curious just how he did it. The darn thing plays pretty much in tune all over the neck. The reason I am interested in some day soon when I get around to building my 12 I'm going to have to come to grips with the intonation issues.

 

When I did my triple ought I kind of did Nip's method - I was pretty anal about getting the saddle slot in the right theoretical location so the leading edge break points were pretty close (within a couple of cents). All I had to do was move the second string back and I did do that by loosening the strings, taking the saddle out, filing a little and checking in.

 

StewMac sells at little thingie to allow the measurements to be made first, then create the saddle

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for:_Bridges/Intonator.html

 

And for a lot of us who mostly play in the first position we would never know the difference. Look at all the Martins that came from the factory with the bridge slot in the wrong place, and all the old 'grassers who couldn't care less.

 

It was also interesting to me that when I built the classical the saddle is perpendicular to the strings - no compensation at all. Yet the intonation is within a couple of cents on all strings. But the perpendicular saddles on my reso's are terrible.

[JasmineTea]

Originally posted by Freeman Keller It was also interesting to me that when I built the classical the saddle is perpendicular to the strings - no compensation at all.

Is that because nylon strings are all about the same thickness? How are nylon strings guaged? Tension? Anybody know?

[Freeman Keller]

 

Originally posted by JasmineTea Is that because nylon strings are all about the same thickness? How are nylon strings guaged? Tension? Anybody know?

 

 

I can't answer that completely, but they are all about the same diameter. And I do know that some classicals have slight compensation, but mine didn't need any.

[walfordr]

 

Originally posted by Freeman Keller ...It was also interesting to me that when I built the classical the saddle is perpendicular to the strings - no compensation at all. Yet the intonation is within a couple of cents on all strings. But the perpendicular saddles on my reso's are terrible.

 

 

The amount of compensation needed is related to the stiffness of the string and the break angle over the bridge. Typically a classical guitar has a lower break angle and the nylon strings are less stiff than steel strings.

 

Also, because wound classical strings have a silk or multistrand nylon core, they are no stiffer than the unwound strings - in fact usually less stiff than the G string. That's why on a classical guitar the saddle often has an offset for the G string only.

 

With steel strings on the other hand, the B string is the troublesome one (unless of course you play an unwound G string).

[Freeman Keller]

Thanks, Walford - that makes complete sense. And yes, the wound G has a smaller core wire than the B. At pitch the first two strings have about the same tension, as do the next three. The low E is close to the top two. From a tension chart

 

STANDARD TUNING E A D G B E TOTAL

LIGHT 26.0 29.9 30.5 30.2 23.3 23.3 163.2