help on learning how to create your own song

[rel5018]

im a self taught player and im really lost on how to create solo's bridges, chorus's ect...im wondering if it is straight trial and error or is there some method to making it all peice together?

[reidonius]

This is a question with no correct answer. The verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-etc formula is a tried and true one, but don't feel like you need to adhere to it. If you're a beginner guitarist, try experimenting with a few chord progressions and work around that.

[Bugsgalore]

I don't follow the verse chorus pattern, but then I don't write lyrics for my songs....I'm more of a solo fingerstyle player.

Usually the way I go about writing a song is it starts with a couple of licks or chops or whatever...then I figure out what key it is in and build A, B , and sometimes C, and D parts.

The plus side is that I get to work my left brain when coming up with the "nugget" at the heart of the song (the improvised chops)....and then I work my right brain by rearranging and writing bridges or whatever based on theory.

The downside is that I am never able to just sit down and write a song.....My left brain needs to do it's part first........The few times I've managed to work around this somewhat has been when I'm trying to imitate something I've heard and end up rearranging it and "making it my own". Usually the "nugget" just kind of appears though.

I would like to eventually work some vocals into things...but for now the guitar is enough.

Cheers,

Matt.

[kwakatak]

I've been similarly frustrated at my attempts at songwriting. It just seems to me that I can't come up with anything that's 100% original. A lot of the stuff I've worked out in the past is either inspired by someone else's work (whether it's subconscious or not I still feel like a fraud whenever I hear the inspiration) or is the result of "letting my fingers do the walking" (aka the "Yellow Pages Method").

Even now I've got a handful of songs floating around in my head that I feel have promise but they just can't get off the ground.

Some songs I have a medody built around a few chords. In the past I've fleshed out these types of compositions (building chorus, verse or bridge sections) by improvising with chords in the same key and humming out a melody in my head. If you try this approach and it doesn't work, put the guitar down and don't even think about how what's in your head translates to the fretboard.

Other songs of mine have taken a different direction by experimenting with a different style of rhythm or time signature. A recent song of mine started in 3/4 time but later on I changed it slightly so that it's now in 6/8 time. It just changed solely on what type of mood I was in at the time I consciously decided to stick with the change. I've found that these sorts of things are best attempted when distractions are at a minimum, like late at night or first thing in the morning.

These suggestions are based on the premise that I'm used to working solely on instrumentals, but recently I've gone back to listening to singer/songwriters who have strong lyrics instead of flashy instrumental technique. This has stirred up old forgotten memories and reawakened my long dormant love of creative writing. The problem there is that I used to write narratives and never tried my hand at poetry which IMO is the basis of strong lyric writing. So far I haven't been able to successfully marry the two disciplines.

Oops, it looks like I've posed more questions than I've addressed and my effort at freewriting has just caused me to ramble. Sorry to hijack your thread, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to kick some ideas out there. Sometimes that's all it takes to break a mental block.

[guitarist21]

I don't think there's any one way to write a song. I could go on forever on different methods and things that I've done when stumped (like kwak it was very nice rambling) but I couldn't guarentee any of it working for you.

Songwriting is very personal and as such, everyone does it differently. There really isn't any one method for writing a great chorus. For me, its all about having a catchy melody in my head have it cooking around in my brain till I think of some lyrics.

This guy in my band, Brett, would slouch in a chair in his bedroom for days before he came out with something workable. But he always did. He said he had to have absolute silence except for him and a guitar and be drinking a Green Apple Jones Soda.

My friend Jim just goes rollerblading and he thinks of a song and sings it into a tape recorder that he always brings with. Its quite remarkable actually.

Its all about finding what works for you, man. Like I said, its different for everyone. Good luck!


Ellen

[Bugsgalore]

Originally posted by kwakatak I've been similarly frustrated at my attempts at songwriting. It just seems to me that I can't come up with anything that's 100% original. A lot of the stuff I've worked out in the past is either inspired by someone else's work (whether it's subconscious or not I still feel like a fraud whenever I hear the inspiration) or is the result of "letting my fingers do the walking" (aka the "Yellow Pages Method").

 

 

I used to have this exact hangup....and still do to some extent. What broke me of it was a quick word from Guy Davis (Blues artist). My wife and I went to see him in this really small venue 7 years ago...and I was blown away by his playing (especially his twelve string slide work)....I bought a CD at the show and asked him how he learned to play like that. He replied, "My aunt (or grandma) taught me but I've pretty much stolen or borrowed everything I know from someone/where else". Kind of the "there's nothing new under the sun" idea. What I've come to think is important is that you make whatever you play YOUR OWN (be it your own compositoin or someone elses).

 

Incidentaly, if you can ever see Guy Davis play solo, I highly recommend it. His albums don't do his performace justice....especially when it's just him, his guitar, and his harmonica.

 

Cheers,

 

Matt.

[catdaddy]

Originally posted by rel5018 im a self taught player and im really lost on how to create solo's bridges, chorus's ect...im wondering if it is straight trial and error or is there some method to making it all peice together?

 

 

As most here have suggested there is no single correct way to approach this. Use your favorite song or songwriter as inspiration or even as a template, create a whole new way of structuring a song if you want (ala Mozart when he redefined symphonic movements) , howl at the moon, blow some blue notes out of an empty Good 'n Plenty box. Just do it your own way. Even if you think it sucks. Do it. There are no songwriting police to come and lock you up for doing it wrong or badly. Then start your second song, chances are it will be better as will your third, fourth, fifth...you get the idea. If you never write the first one you'll never even have the chance to improve.

[guitarist21]

Originally posted by catdaddy If you never write the first one you'll never even have the chance to improve.

+1

[Dave Keir]

This is a very interesting subject and one which I

[DADGADammit]

usually i'll end up writing a ton of bits in the same key or changing stuff i've already written to the right key to match the piece i want to marry it to. but i've found that the best stuff or parts of my songs that i've written were after that process was done with and i was humming it in my head and i come up with something else to add

the hardest part i've found in writing is trying to get the guitar to sound like the tune i have in my head. i think when you can instantly play stuff that you have heard in your head beforehand without even a guitar in front of you, thats when you become jimi hendrix.

[Michael Martin]

Since Jan 05 I have completed 25 songs, with another 15 or so partly done, and then a huge storehouse (on paper and tape) of lonely bits that I hope to make use of someday. Of the 25 that are complete, I'd say no two emerged quite the same way. Some seemed to write themselves, and others were laboriously produced and messed with for weeks or months. I always have many under construction at the same time.

The last one I began last week, on vacation. Kind of a long story, but the song was just "there" when I picked up the guitar, after an experience that involved a particular person in a particular place. The chorus just appeared, and I recorded it on my tape player (as melody/chords). Then, while walking around doing something totally unconnected, a verse began playing in my head. Went back to the car and recorded that (also just melody/chords). Later, at home a few days later, I wrote lyrics and discovered a good bridge. Then I rejected that bridge and found another. This morning, when I woke up I finally put it all together.

I don't always construct them the same way. Some have bridges, some only have verses (no chorus even), some have the chorus first (like Lennon did with Strawberry Fields). Lately I've been partial to 3/4 and 6/8 time (fun for strummers!). Most stuff is fingerstyle though, usually 4/4.

[RizinRico]

I am not sure who said this and I may be paraphrasing a bit but,
"brilliance borrows but genius steals". since most songs are about the human condition how can anybody ever write something totally new. (Mozart's symphonies are not songs) If you really express how you feel about whatever you were feeling to inspire you to write it down then go with it. Does Clapton feel like a fraud when he covers Robert Johnson for a whole CD? Stones vs Howlin Wolf etc etc etc
if you fake the feeling then you are a fraud, if you beg borrow or steal to get your true feelings out then GO WITH IT. and while you are on the path HAVE SOME FUN!!

[Michael Martin]

Another thought: The end of the third verse of song #24, "Come With Me", explains this whole songwriting thing most clearly:

(...)
It's a song I think that I wrote it
It must be about you I'm not really sure
The words are my own but the music came from the night
Just before dawn dark-winged angels
Gathered outside of the south-facing window
Of the room where I fall asleep every night thinking of you

[JasmineTea]

Originally posted by rel5018 im a self taught player and im really lost on how to create solo's bridges, chorus's ect...im wondering if it is straight trial and error or is there some method to making it all peice together?

Just dream it up, man. Just think to yourself "hmm, what would sound good here" and play it.

 

Consider the Beatles. I've read where they literaly thought that songs were just floating in the air and all one had to do was reach up and take them.

 

IMO, if there is a method, it's a combination of dreaming and tinkering.

 

Now I'll read the rest of the thread...

[ElixirofLife]

Songwriting is an intrinsically personal and creative process. A lot of people compare it to a spiritual experience. Soem write out of seemingly thin air like the boys from Liverpool, grabbing songs from the ether, and others sit down and apply a regimen, they have a set structure and they adhere to it to produce the music. It is all relevant, alll creative and all alike in the end...anything goes. Esteban is a genius.

[t-harper]

Let me break this down from a below beginner point of view.

1. Start easy for your first song. Take your favorite chord, scale, the one you have the best rifts your comfortable with. Starting your first song you have to be comfortable to walk that difficult path.

2. Since your comfortable with a chord, scale area, work on the rythem. The words will generally do this for you in a quick easy manner. This will also give you your 3/4, 4/4, 6/8 siginiture for your song. It is hard enough to do your first song, don't lock your most difficult part, words, into something your not inspired in rythem wise. (If your strictly looking for fingering style you can drop this part. Or you are having a hard part working up inspriation for words, you can also drop this part. Save this non-word song for later when the words come together. Don't force words, when they are hard to find, to make a song quickly.)

3. Find that thing that inspires you most. For me it is romance and towards my wife. When I was much younger I always had fun writting rifts for girls I was dating, and it worked well. Besides the gratifications afterwards which insipired me to make more. Another words look towards things that will give you back more inspiriation to move on to deeper subjects. (remember don't try to write demotivational music as your first attempt. Like, my wife just left me, my dog pissed on my shoes, and my car has been repossed. Unless your venting to improve your attitude.)

4. Now that you have motivation, and some words jotted down. You have to look into your sound your going to apply into your inspiration. After all we are not looking into a music generator for profit here. Just fun and inspiration for further subjects to fall into your lap.

5. Take your rifts, chords, scale work, and see where it best fits into your first shot in music creation. The words will help here as they will show you natural rythems that fit well with your style. And the rythem of the words will also show you the 3/4 4/4 6/8 etc. Again if your not working with words, don't worry about this part. The words will come when they inspire you later on in your song writting abilities.

6. Don't try for your first song to get to complicated. Make it easy and smoooooooth! Let it flow with simplicity, even if it has rifts from other songs you know. In time you will get the speed, confidance, ability to create great sonates. Making it to hard at first will only ristrict your desire to move deeper in your creativity.

7. Lastly, make it fun, silly, what ever works to help you jot it down. Like Wierd Al, in turning a song into something off the wall with only different words. The first steps should be easy for you, and mostly fun. To reward your difficult journey into song writting.

Just have fun, enjoy, let inspriation come to you. Don't dig, drive yourself crazy, isolate yourself to come up with your first song. When a passionate moment, not talking about just love, but anger, dislike, unjust, empathy, Your lover, Your daughter/son, even as far as your pet. When moments of deep feels hit you, write them down. (Outline is cool as well, not the whole song. You can fill in the words later when you ready to do some composing.)

Once you get more under your belt you can pack them off quickly. And with a special style that is all your own. And you will see those things that drives a song writter to write good songs.

just my humble thoughts,

Thomas

[meandi]

i use a cheap cassette recorder from the beginning of both lyric & music developement

this allows me to hear it from "outside myself" & provides an entirely perspective from conceptualizing or listening to myself actually sing/play

shows me the weak areas in wording, phrasing & has allowed me, i feel, to tighten up my stuff much more quickly

it's a real awakening to hear me doing something & say man that sucks what can i do to evolve it into something i would listen to if it were another artist doing it

[Old_Joe_Clark]

Originally posted by Bugsgalore I don't follow the verse chorus pattern, but then I don't write lyrics for my songs....I'm more of a solo fingerstyle player. Usually the way I go about writing a song is it starts with a couple of licks or chops or whatever...then I figure out what key it is in and build A, B , and sometimes C, and D parts. ............

Not sure if I fall into this category or not. But it sounds similar. The trouble I have when I use this method is that my songs all come out of the "what can I play" part of my brain which has more to do with what chords, transitions, hammer ons, etc that I have been working with as opposed to the "what I want to play" part of my brain. So, I might be feeling blue or philosophical but the song comes out as the second cousin to Turkey in the Straw.

Being in love with acoustic guitar but not being much of musician makes me a bit like Don Quixote with his love Dulcinea del Toboso.