Nut files

[Dave W.]

I was going to PM Freeman about this, but decided to leave it out for others to see also. Someday I will build a guitar or two, but just don't have the time now. I do need to make a new nut for a couple of my guitars, so a first guitar tool investment in nut files seems like a good place to start. The double edged files from StuMac look good, and the first four seem like they would cover my needs for a bit under $100. Any input, or anything else as a must have while I am ordering? Thanks.

 

Dave

[Freeman Keller]

Thats what I have and they have worked fine. I have heard it said that the doubles are a little too sharp - singles are better, but will be more money. I took some emery cloth (maybe 400 grit?) and rounded the slots slightly after I filed them. I used an Axato razor saw to start the slots and a pair of digital calipers to measure. I just bought StewMacs little string gap scale after doing the one on the classical, tho, but haven't used it yet.

 

There is a great sticky on the Tech Forum at UMGF that will take you thru each step of making the nut from scratch - highly recommended. Note that strings are not evenly spaced - you need to compensate for their diameter. Also the gap to the first fret is not quite the same - the measurements are in the article.

 

Last trick - put masking tape on the fretboard and on the headstock so you don't scratch them. Ask how I know.

 

So, a little confession. I get ready to make the nut for the classical (the strings are equally spaced on it). I carefully measure in from each side the required amount, then divide the distance between those marks by 6 and cut the slots. When I get done I have a very nice nut for a seven string guitar. Damn.

[Dave W.]

Originally posted by Freeman Keller Last trick - put masking tape on the fretboard and on the headstock so you don't scratch them. Ask how I know. So, a little confession. I get ready to make the nut for the classical (the strings are equally spaced on it). I carefully measure in from each side the required amount, then divide the distance between those marks by 6 and cut the slots. When I get done I have a very nice nut for a seven string guitar. Damn.

 

Thanks Freeman, I will read the article before making more scrap. It's the little things that keep us humble, I guess that's why they are there.

[Bugsgalore]

I've seen a couple of cheaper alternatives to the Stew Mac nutfiles floating around the internet. (I am assuming you are primarily concerned with cutting or tuning the slots in the nut...not the shaping process itself).

 

Frank Ford has suggested using welding tip cleaning files....they come in a range of diameters and a set can be bought for a couple of bucks at your local welding supply store (Big R in the West). These are little round files in measured diameters used for cleaning gas welding tips...they typically come in a fold up case and are more or less disposable. Mr. Ford posted about this on the Acoustic Guitar Magazine, Luthier's Corner forum. He said a set was usually good for a couple of nuts.

 

Another thing I've seen suggested for use (as well as for sale on EBAY) is a set of feeler gauges (for gapping sparkplugs) that have teeth cut into one of their edges. You can get a set of feeler gauges for pretty cheap (

 

I've used the former for fine tuning a preexisting nut and they worked pretty well for me. I have a set of feeler guages but have not modified them for this use (although I do use them to check string heights...gap my sparkplugs...and check the fit of parts on various projects). Granted I don't think that either of these jury rigged solutions will work as well as the stew mac files......but if the $100 is an issue (as it is for me!!) they might work OK and could be worth a shot. If you have the cash and/or think you'll be doing a lot of nuts....the stew mac files are probably your best bet (right tool for the job).

 

Cheers,

 

Matt.

[Bilbo]

Safety razor from Walmart, roughed up with a saw blade, scroll saw blade broken off to shorter length, thick fine tooth saw blade. $8 total. I won't even tell you the names I set up in the 80's with this cheap combo. You do have to know what your doing.

[Dave W.]

Guys,

 

Thanks for your replies. Matt I recall you talking about the torch tip cleaners before, and I would probably go that route if I was just opening up existing slots for wider strings. Somehow I have a feeling I am going to be doing a bit of this over the years, and I have this love affair (addiction) with good tools, so I will probably spring for the proper stuff. I was/am mostly interested in hearing if anyone had experience with the different nut files available from StuMac or LMI. Thanks again.

[Bugsgalore]

 

Originally posted by Dave W. Guys, ...and I have this love affair (addiction) with good tools, so I will probably spring for the proper stuff.

 

 

Boy do I hear you there!!! I spent most of my tool money on clamps, a workbench (built from dimensional lumber and recycled materials), some good japanese style saws, and decent chisels.....as well as a kit guitar. Not a day goes by that I'm not drooling over some new tool......

 

Unfortunatley....due to a series of family emergencies...as well as an absolutely insane work schedule I have not gotten very far on the kit....have most of my clamps and cauls put together...have yet to start assembly. Fall is around the corner though....and things should soon slow down.... now if I could just go without sleep....

 

Cheers,

 

Matt.

[Freeman Keller]

Matt, we need to talk. Building my guitars and the current mando has been an incredible way to get away from all those pressures. I go out in the shop and make sawdust for a while and forget all about trolls or politics or work projects.

 

The one thing I have learned is that TAS is even worse than GAS. Sherrill, can I get a new band saw for the 12 string....

[Bugsgalore]

Freeman,

 

I think this thread is going to finally get me up off of my butt and building on that kit..... that and the fact that it looks like I will have some "free" time over the next couple of days.

 

In fact.... I am going to go into my shop right now and get some things going!!!

 

Thanks!!

 

Cheers,

 

Matt.

 

 

Oh yeah....so you looking for a 12" or a 14" bandsaw....for the money that Rigid at HD is looking pretty good to me......

[Freeman Keller]

Matt, maybe this will inspire you. The mando is hanging in my state of the art paint booth right now (if you use your imagination it kind of looks like a guitar shipping box). Not having a clue what I'm doing has never stopped me.

 

Have you discovered the kit guitar forum? I have posted building pics of my first two under the "Show it Off" forum and a few pics of my meager little shop under "Tools"

 

http://www.kitguitarbuilder.com/

 

Thanks for the beta on the band saws. I have both a floor model and a little bench saw where I work but I'm kinda TASing for a small bench one at home. I couldn't have done the mando without one.

 

 

 

[bjorn-fjord]

I have used a few different types of nut files over the years (including what Stew-Mac offers) and my favorite by far is the LMI set of Ibanez files. I find that the Stew-Mac files do not last long. They clog very badly and the seem to get dull very quickly.

[JasmineTea]

I think we should start the "ask bjorn" thread.

 

bjorn, I got a crazy idea: What if a guitar was made using stainless for the first three fretts?

 

edit: being those three get the most ware.

[Bugsgalore]

Freeman,

 

Nice sunburst!!! Did you carve that mando? No shame in figuring out new ways to do things, Improvising tools, clamps etc. is one of my favorite things to do! Both at work and in my shop.

 

I have in fact been at the kit guitar forum and have posted there on and off (under matt grieshop).....I havn't been there in a while because....well....I got stalled on my kit...and kinda got my tail between my legs as a result. I thin this has partly been due to fear/nervous based procrastination but mainly I just havn't had much time to myself lately. My work is very seasonal and this summer just spiraled out of control.....and got complicated by some extraneous family stuff...house projects...2 year old son....pregnacy yadda yadda yadda. It seems like I have rarely had more than 1/2 hour to myself in the last three months. The light is at the end of the tunnel though....Apple harvest is starting and the demonic little insects I work with will be too cold to fly pretty soon.

 

I've seen some images of both your 000 and classical (there and here). They are both really nice I really like the quality of finish you got on both of them. Are you using waterbase lacquer or nitro?? I'm thinking my first will be done with Tru oil...but I want to try that stuff out on another project first (a walking stick I've been making for my wife). If I don't use Tru oil I think I'll go with waterbase lacquer. (probably brushed)....the toxic element of nitro scares me away (I work with enough poison at my job!) as my shop is not well set up for spraying.....and it will be winter before I get that far.

 

I did work on it last night though (right after my last post)....and am finally ready to start glueing, hopefully tonight!

 

Thanks for the inspriation.

 

Cheers,

 

Matt.

[Freeman Keller]

Thank you. I wanted to wait until it was done but after shooting a few coats last night I took some pics and just had to post them.

 

The mando was sort of a kit - Tim McKinght had the wood - sides were bent and top/bottom/neck were cnc cut. I did all the shaping and scrolls and stuff. Finish on this one is StewMac waterbased lacquer and waterbase stains - I'm spraying with a little detail gun and a 3hp compressor. The 'burst was done with some wiping and some air brushed. My two others were finished with, believe it or not, StewMac rattle cans of nitro lacquer. Toxic, yes, but a reasonable way for a home builder to do it. The secret is good wood prep to start and many coats, most of which gets sanded off.

 

You mention the apple harvest and insects and all - are you a grower or horticulturist or ?? I work for a company that builds packing equipment for the fruit industry - mostly apples but also pears, cherries, etc. Several of my good friends are growers and one is in research horticulture.

 

Thread drift -

[Bugsgalore]

This is now completely off topic.

 

Freeman,

 

Those SM rattle cans look interesting....and I've talked to a few folks who seem to do well with them. A spray gun seems like it would be the logical tool for the job though.

 

I'll have to check out the kit forum again to see where Bill is at with his finishing woes. That is probably the part of the whole process that makes me the most anxious. I think I'll be to the point by then to just accept any mistakes or foibles that come along. I really don't expect or need perfection!!

 

As for the professional stuff. I am an agricultural entomologist working for Washington State University at a satellite research station that caters to the tree fruit industry here (on the East side of the Cascades). My specific area of research is pheromone based mating disruption of the Codling moth. We've been here for about a year now and love it. This was my first full field season though and I think I "misunderestimated" how busy I would become....

 

You are in Colorado are you not? Are you on the front range or in the West? I know some fruit growers out in the Pallisades/Grand Junction area and actually interviewed for a position out there a while ago (with the Colorado Dept. of Ag.).

 

Perhaps this would be better continued as a PM...given we are pretty far off topic now.

 

Cheers,

 

Matt.

[bjorn-fjord]

 

Originally posted by JasmineTea I think we should start the "ask bjorn" thread. bjorn, I got a crazy idea: What if a guitar was made using stainless for the first three fretts? edit: being those three get the most ware.

 

 

Damn JT, that's a pretty good idea. That could really suit some custom order type stuff. It might look a little odd but maybe that in itself could be a "feature".

 

The D-28 CR? (cash register).

[JasmineTea]

 

Originally posted by bjorn-fjord Damn JT, that's a pretty good idea.

 

 

Thanks. I tried it on another luthier and he was'nt crazy about the idea of burning up a set of files for three frets.

 

Originally posted by bjorn-fjord The D-28 CR? (cash register).

Yeah! Hey, if you thinks worth a go, try it and let us know how it turns out...just remember where you got the idea...

[Hudman]

 

Originally posted by JasmineTea I think we should start the "ask bjorn" thread. bjorn, I got a crazy idea: What if a guitar was made using stainless for the first three fretts? edit: being those three get the most ware.

 

 

You can order Carvin electric guitars with either 22 or 24 stainless steel frets. Stainless frets are a popular option at Carvin. I never heard of using them on an acoustic.

[mikesr1963]

I've done a couple of nuts and my files cost me 6 bucks.

[Dave W.]

 

Originally posted by mikesr1963 I've done a couple of nuts and my files cost me 6 bucks.

 

 

Would you care to share a little more info?

[Etienne Rambert]

Stupid Question: Does a nut effect the tone of a guitar? I am thinking of getting Ebony wood nuts instead of the Water Buffalo bone they use here.

 

Would an Ebony wood nut make any difference in a guitar's tone?

 

I want to try this, because nobody else is doing it. And Vietnamese craftsmen can do a great job for very little money.

[JasmineTea]

 

Originally posted by marcellis Stupid Question: Does a nut effect the tone of a guitar? I am thinking of getting Ebony wood nuts instead of the Water Buffalo bone they use here. Would an Ebony wood nut make any difference in a guitar's tone?

Not stupid. I would'nt have thought so untill I tried an experiment. Talking fretted notes only, not open notes: Slip a thin piece of cardboard, like from a matchbook, between the nut and strings. Play some fretted notes. Take the matchbook out, play some fretted notes. You should hear the dif in tone before and after. (obviously the open notes will be different)

 

Martin uses an ebony nut on the OM-18GE.

[AK47]

I think the ebony would work for nylon strings. IMHO The steel strings would be too sharp and have enough tension to put extreme wear on the nut. Might sound good but not last long. Might be fun to try but keep your bone nut just in case.

[bjorn-fjord]

Originally posted by AK47 I think the ebony would work for nylon strings. IMHO The steel strings would be too sharp and have enough tension to put extreme wear on the nut. Might sound good but not last long. Might be fun to try but keep your bone nut just in case.

 

+1