Martin neck material question

[Attila]

I see that the neck material for many Martin acoustics, is listed as, "select hardwood". What does that mean? Some kind of cheap composite (like micarta) to further cut costs for them?

 

-Attila

[da mayor]

Atilla, this question has been discussed here before in some detail. Just use the search function and you'll come up with a thread or two.

[Dave W.]

Originally posted by Attila I see that the neck material for many Martin acoustics, is listed as, "select hardwood". What does that mean? Some kind of cheap composite (like micarta) to further cut costs for them? -Attila

Not quite how sure how "select hardwood" translates into "cheap composite (like micarta)" since the two are about as far apart as they can get. Like da mayor said, it's been well covered here before. Let me guess, you're not a big Martin fan.

[Attila]

Originally posted by Dave W. Not quite how sure how "select hardwood" translates into "cheap composite (like micarta)" since the two are about as far apart as they can get. Like da mayor said, it's been well covered here before. Let me guess, you're not a big Martin fan.

Actually, I have no issues with Martin at all --- all I meant by my question was why can't they just list the wood type? Mahagony, maple, etc.

Oh, and before I posted, I did a search using various title keywords, and came up with nothing. If it's such a big deal to help someone with a question, then just forget I asked

-Attila

[Whalebot]

Atilla, the wood used may be what the have in hand in quantity, Spanish Cedar etc., they list it as select hardwood because depending on when the guitar was produced it will have a different wood for the neck. Both of mine are genuwine hog!

[da mayor]

If it's such a big deal to help someone with a question, then just forget I asked

 

 

Not a big deal dude, just that it's been mentioned, discussed, etc. often. See below. And jeez, don't be so sensitive. Lots of questions get asked here frequently. The search function is always a good place to start, but lots of people don't seem to realize it's there. Didn't mean to give you a hard time, o.k.?

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1027606&highlight=select+hardwood

[Dave W.]

Originally posted by Attila I see that the neck material for many Martin acoustics, is listed as, "select hardwood". What does that mean? Some kind of cheap composite (like micarta) to further cut costs for them? -Attila

 

 

If you had left out the last sentence:

 

"Some kind of cheap composite (like micarta) to further cut costs for them?"

 

your question would have been taken more seriously. Instead of a question, it came across as a rant, and was received as such.

 

On some models, Martin feels the need to be able to substitute a different species of wood for the neck on occasion, and is upfront about it in their specs. Like fingerboards, I would prefer a good piece of rosewood over a bad piece of ebony. Good quality wood is getting scarce.

[Attila]

Fair enough, guys. I guess I worded my question poorly. Thanks for the info, and the link above.

-Attila

[t60 fan]

FWIW Attila, we had a real firestorm around here in a micarta thread and its kinda taboo now it seems...

[Dave W.]

Originally posted by Attila Fair enough, guys. I guess I worded my question poorly. Thanks for the info, and the link above. -Attila

No problem, it really had nothing to do with the Micarta reference. I haven't played it yet, but there are some respected members who have and say they can't tell it from ebony. In mass produced guitars, even at the upper levels, something is going to have to give with the way the wood situation is going, and profit has become a dirty word, but it is what keeps companies in business. That said, when I can finially afford my Collings OM, it is not going to have a "select hardwood" neck or a Micarta fingerboard.

[nylon rock]

Attila, Nice picture of Hank Williams Sr.

[javaCat]

Originally posted by t60 fan FWIW Attila, we had a real firestorm around here in a micarta thread and its kinda taboo now it seems...

 

Ya, which is halarious though. A material is taboo here, HERE of all places, lol. Seriously it shouldnt matter what its made of if it sounds good, but it does. Resale, future tones (opening up), bragging rights, haha.

[Andrewrg]

It's about availability of mahogany-or rather the lack of it. Martin can no longer guarantee consistent supplies as it is being logged out of existence and only 40 series guitars are now guaranteed to have mahogany necks. The other timber used, Spanish cedar, was the wood used when Martin first started producing guitars.
Martin has also started adding 'wings' to the headstock sides in an effort to conserve timber resources.

[knockwood]

Originally posted by Andrewrg It's about availability of mahogany-or rather the lack of it. Martin can no longer guarantee consistent supplies as it is being logged out of existence and only 40 series guitars are now guaranteed to have mahogany necks. The other timber used, Spanish cedar, was the wood used when Martin first started producing guitars. Martin has also started adding 'wings' to the headstock sides in an effort to conserve timber resources.

 

 

Actually, the 40 series also lists "Select Hardwood" for the neck spec, as does this $35,000 Braz model:

http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/choosing/guitars.php?p=b&g=a&m=D-45%20Celtic%20Knot

 

The following semi-rant is not directed at you, Andrew, just so you know. I only quoted you above to point out that Martin seems to have spared no model, including customs, in applying the uber-vague "Select Hardwood" spec.

 

I don't mind wings whatsoever, as they are pretty widely used, have no qualitative impact I can fathom, are barely noticeable... and even if hog were not dwindling it is difficult to make an argument in favor of wasting that much wood to achieve a solid headstock taper. The neck material spec is still troubling to me, though. To give Martin the benefit of the doubt regarding their justification for the vague spec - which I don't, but let's assume that I do - it still strikes me as less than adequately expressed respect for the customer to place such a vague spec on guitars in the multi-thousand-dollar price range. I think this also applies to gits in the $300 price range (customers should be told what they're getting), but especially so in the higher monetary registers. If Taylor, Larrivee, Gibson, Guild, etc., etc., can commit to a particular neck species, so can Martin at least commit to a range ("Mahogany OR Cedar"), just as they do with the body/top wood specs on their 15 series. I have no problem with cedar. I have two acoustics with cedar necks and no complaints about either of them. I just have a problem with a spec that amounts to, ultimately, "Whatever."

 

As someone will no doubt get around to pointing out, I have the right to simply not buy Martins if I'm not happy about their spec. This is, however, rather a narrow-minded perspective IMHO. In the face of disagreeable circumstances, turning one's back allows no possibility for improvement or resolution while respectful confrontation and reasonable argument may. I prefer the latter, although I'd have to be the first to admit that the "respectful" and "reasonable" part can present a challenge when you get a bunch of strong-minded fanatics in the same place.

 

I happen to love Martin's gits. I just think the company on the whole could use some work in the customer relations area.

[Dave W.]

Knock,

I didn't realise that the "select hardwood" thing ran that far up in the Martin line. Not being in the market for a guitar lately I have not been looking at the specs. From my personal perspective, if I am going to pay $2000+ retail I would expect to know what the materials are ahead of time. I really thought they were just doing that on their lower end models like the 16 series.

[knockwood]

Originally posted by Dave W. Knock, I didn't realise that the "select hardwood" thing ran that far up in the Martin line. Not being in the market for a guitar lately I have not been looking at the specs. From my personal perspective, if I am going to pay $2000+ retail I would expect to know what the materials are ahead of time. I really thought they were just doing that on their lower end models like the 16 series.

 

 

I think originally they were only using that spec for their lower-end gits. I remember when I first noticed it, I looked at several models on their website and the higher-end stuff still listed mahogany as the neck spec. I'm not sure when "Select Hardwood" came into use across the board. The spec for the 16 series was originally, I think, Cedar. All the 16 series gits I've seen so far have had cedar necks (to my eye, anyway - I find it a little difficult to tell cedar from hog sometimes). As far as I can tell, they still seem to be using strictly solid mahogany and solid cedar. I guess what perplexes me most about "Select Hardwood" is the question of what third or fourth option they might use, since from what I hear both mahogany and Spanish cedar are in a state of diminished supply.

 

I may take some shots for this one from traditionalists, but I think if they - or any company - were to switch to multi-pieced necks, this would not be a bad thing. I'm not talking fingerjointed headstocks. I mean lam necks a la Howard Klepper, William Cumpiano, George Lowden, James Olson... They are stronger, resistant to warping, and they offer some very nice aesthetic possibilities. Whatever they do, I just think in general it's a wise practice to tell customers as much as possible about what they're getting for their money.